CAC vs. Other Stickers

CACfan

Does anyone have an interest in other third-party stickers like QA or MAC? Some of my retail customers do. CAC is king by light years but certain buyers seem enthralled by even the most obscure sticker, anything that verifies the slab grade. I sold one slab that had FOUR different stickers on it, one of which is unknown to me. But only collectors are enthusiastic about these second- and third-tier stickers. Dealers could not care less. 

TurtleCat

My understanding is that QA is very good and is the closest thing to CAC for moderns as CAC is for non moderns. I don’t buy into that market but I have heard good things about it overall. Other than that, I’m not into other stickers. 

Winesteven

For my one Flying Eagle Cent in my Type Set, and my Indian Head Cent set under construction, I like and have respect for Rick Snow’s Eagle Eye Photo Seal. That seal, started a bit more than 10 years prior to CAC, also indicates that the coin is solid for the grade. So while there’s some duplicity duplication,  I believe they each place a different weighting on certain factors. I believe Rick has a slightly heavier weighting on Strike and Die State than CAC. As such, I like having both stickers on those coins.

Here’s my most recent pickup:

Winesteven

CACfan said:

Dealers could not care less. 

I believe you meant to say “Dealers could care less”.

Winesteven

I’m not sure if the following request is allowed (if not, moderator please delete this comment), but if anyone is willing to sell an IHC graded by PCGS at least MS65RB or higher (no proofs) with BOTH a CAC and a Photo Seal with NICE eye appeal that I need in my set either to fill a hole or as an upgrade, please message me.

Here’s a hotlink to my set so you can see what I need. Thanks.

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-cents/indian-cents-major-sets/indian-cents-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1859-1909/publishedset/266583

CACfan

An Eagle Eye Photo Seal just means that Rick Snow agrees with the slab grade of a coin that he is trying to sell. It is self-serving. Overall, its standards are much lower than CAC's, at least in my experience. Of the many Indian cents with that Seal that I have sent to CAC, most were rejected. 

CACfan

Winesteven said:

CACfan said:

Dealers could not care less. 

I believe you meant to say “Dealers could care less”.

No, I meant what I said. Only collectors crave "third world" slab stickers, as Gene Henry used to say. Dealers are indifferent. But I am a retailer, so any sticker is better than none (they are like having a little salesman on the holder). I count seven sticker services besides CAC. But there may be others. Yet, I will take one CAC sticker over all of the others combined. And CAC has phenomenally superior customer service. 

BillJones

I have never seen an Indian Cent with the Eagle Eye seal of approval that I didn’t like. I have also liked the foreign coins with the “WINGS” sticker, but I have not seen that many of them. 

Winesteven

CACfan said:

Winesteven said:

CACfan said:

Dealers could not care less. 

I believe you meant to say “Dealers could care less”.

No, I meant what I said. Only collectors crave "third world" slab stickers, as Gene Henry used to say. Dealers are indifferent. But I am a retailer, so any sticker is better than none (they are like having a little salesman on the holder). I count seven sticker services besides CAC. But there may be others. Yet, I will take one CAC sticker over all of the others combined. And CAC has phenomenally superior customer service. 

So based on your expanded explanation, the proper way to say what you meant is indeed “Dealers could care less”.

Winesteven

I respectfully disagree. Of my approximately 30 coins or so that have Photo Seals, I bought only about five from Rick. I bought about five others that already had Photo Seals (and I agree the original owners MAY have bought those directly from Rick). 

But the other 20 or so I bought from other dealers and auctions WITHOUT the Photo Seal, and then sent them to Rick with $15 to get his Photo Seal. The money is refunded for those that don’t pass.

As for pass rates, my impression is they are similar. They do have somewhat different standards, as I mentioned in one of my comments above. I also believe Rick is stricter on coins graded 66 with carbon spots/flecks. I’ve submitted coins with CAC’s to Rick graded MS66RD and also RB, and he did NOT pass them due to the amount/size of spots!

Steve

Winesteven

By the way, for the $15 fee Rick charges for his Photo Seal (only for coins that pass), you get not only the sticker, but also the plasticized card the size of a slab with an obverse photo of your stickered coin. You also get from Rick via his website on the lookup tool three high resolution photos, as shown of my coin above. Combined, that’s quite a value for only $15!

CACfan

Winesteven said:

I respectfully disagree. Of my approximately 30 coins or so that have Photo Seals, I bought only about five from Rick. I bought about five others that already had Photo Seals (and I agree the original owners MAY have bought those directly from Rick. 

But the other 20 or so I bought from other dealers and auctions WITHOUT the Photo Seal, and then sent them to Rick with $15 to get his Photo Seal. The money is refunded for those that don’t pass.

As for pass rates, my impression is they are similar. They do have somewhat different standards, as I mentioned in one of my comments above. I also believe Rick is stricter on coins graded 66 with carbon spots/flecks. I’ve submitted coins with CAC’s to Rick graded MS66RD and also RB, and he did NOT pass them due to the spots!

Steve

Again, the Eagle Eye Photo Seal is self-serving and thus biased. CAC does not buy the coins that it approves or rejects, Rick Snow does, hence the conflict of interest. Them's the facts. But again, because I am a retailer I will take any sticker over none at all for reasons previously explained. 

Winesteven

BillJones said:

I have never seen an Indian Cent with the Eagle Eye seal of approval that I didn’t like. I have also liked the foreign coins with the “WINGS” sticker, but I have not seen that many of them. 

Agree, but I’m sure that like CAC, there are exceptions.

CACfan

Winesteven said:

By the way, for the $15 fee Rick charges for his Photo Seal (only for coins that pass), you get not only the sticker, but also the plasticized card the size of a slab with an obverse photo of your stickered coin. You also get from Rick via his website on the lookup tool three high resolution photos, as shown of my coin above. Combined, that’s quite a value for only $15!

Rick Snow is a talented, brilliant marketer, almost like the David Hall of Indian cents. His bargain $15 service cleverly promotes his products. 

Winesteven

Actually, CAC does buy coins it stickers! MOST of its revenue comes from them buying and selling coins! Does that make them self serving too? The CAC $16 fee - is that also cleverly promoting their products, which they buy and sell?

EarlyFederalCoinage

Winesteven said:

CACfan said:

Winesteven said:

CACfan said:

Dealers could not care less. 

I believe you meant to say “Dealers could care less”.

No, I meant what I said. Only collectors crave "third world" slab stickers, as Gene Henry used to say. Dealers are indifferent. But I am a retailer, so any sticker is better than none (they are like having a little salesman on the holder). I count seven sticker services besides CAC. But there may be others. Yet, I will take one CAC sticker over all of the others combined. And CAC has phenomenally superior customer service. 

So based on your expanded explanation, the proper way to say what you meant is indeed “Dealers could care less”.

The phrase is “couldn’t care less” to imply zero concern with no lesser degree of caring available; “could care less” necessarily implies that there are lower degrees of caring available.😈

Winesteven

ok, but saying could not care less implies they CAN care MORE. That's why saying could care less, is clearly showing ONLY a lesser degree of caring. Semantics - I hate them, lol.

EarlyFederalCoinage

CACfan said:

An Eagle Eye Photo Seal just means that Rick Snow agrees with the slab grade of a coin that he is trying to sell. It is self-serving. Overall, its standards are much lower than CAC's, at least in my experience. Of the many Indian cents with that Seal that I have sent to CAC, most were rejected. 

Rick accepts coins from the public and has a die hard following among Indian Head and Flying Eagle Cent collectors. Its business model is really no different than CAC’s. It stickers coins it would like to make a market in. That is the real function of both stickers. Indeed Snow also publishes a “pink sheet” with corresponding values.

My understanding is that at one time Rick’s Photoseal coins were automatically stickered, but this is no longer the case. In fact, in many ways I think his standards are stricter than CAC’s with one notable exception and that is with copper toning. Rick accepts coins with blue and purple toning with the “MS70ed” look as CAC originally did but no longer does. Rick does not believe that MS70 imparts these colors. Rick and I vehemently disagree on this point and I have argued this ad nauseam with him on the PCGS Forums about this. He refuses to acknowledge that surfactants in MS70 do have molecular conformations of sulfur that could become available under the right reaction conditions. And he also misses the point that the surface of RB and BN copper (those most prone to demonstrate the MS70 effect) are no longer pure elemental copper but also have various copper oxides and sulfides (I.e. toning) and that these are the appropriate molecular actors in theorizing any potential chemical mechanism.

Anyway, I digress. My point is that Rick’s sticker is not a CAC knock off or inferior self sticker operation. He is a well revered copper expert. Sometimes even experts like JA and Rick disagree but that doesn’t make one inferior to the other. If your Eagle Eye coins failed to sticker, it is likely for the reasons discussed above.

Winesteven

@EarlyFederalCoinage

"Like"

EarlyFederalCoinage

The QA sticker (run by James Sego) is well revered among modern collectors and is meant to fill in the void in CAC ineligible series. 

Barry Stuppler’s PQ sticker never really took off but it has a small following.

I’ve heard good things about Wings (the foreign coin version of CAC), but I do not collect foreign coins to be able to thoughtfully comment.

The MAC sticker is a total joke IMHO, but I didn’t expect any less from the ASA Accugrade guy. Who collects full beak Washington quarters? 😂 

EarlyFederalCoinage

@Winesteven

I love the IHC and your PCGS registry set. The set is very well matched and put together. You should start an entire thread and allow each coin to be discussed individually. It would help those newer to copper coinage to learn.