Should a green sticker coin be further defined?

Stevie

Was thinking should a green sticker be further defined as to wether it’s an A or B coin. Be interesting to know JAs thoughts. It would be informative for the consumer to have this information and for the seller when setting a price. Perhaps the owner of an A coin might than consider resubmitting the coin for a higher grade at the TPG services. Maybe the letter could be embedded within the green sticker. Please render your opinions.

MarkFeld

No.

EarlyFederalCoinage

No

SilenceOfTheClams

No

VanHalen

That would really be splitting hairs at CAC. So my vote is no also.

Stevie

VanHalen said:

That would really be splitting hairs at CAC. So my vote is no also.

I don’t think that the concept is that different from the plus grades used by the TPGS.

VanHalen

Stevie said:

VanHalen said:

That would really be splitting hairs at CAC. So my vote is no also.

I don’t think that the concept is that different from the plus grades used by the TPGS.

True.

I don't believe splitting a Green sticker into A or B is part of CAC's mission or goal. Not that it could not be accomplished.

Stevie

VanHalen said:

Stevie said:

VanHalen said:

That would really be splitting hairs at CAC. So my vote is no also.

I don’t think that the concept is that different from the plus grades used by the TPGS.

True.

I don't believe splitting a Green sticker into A or B is part of CAC's mission or goal. Not that it could not be accomplished.

CAC tells people that A or B coins only are considered for a green sticker. Just thought it would be interesting to know which category their grading put our coins in so we can learn what constitutes an A coin as opposed to a B

Crypto

Stevie said: you 

VanHalen said:

Stevie said:

VanHalen said:

That would really be splitting hairs at CAC. So my vote is no also.

I don’t think that the concept is that different from the plus grades used by the TPGS.

True.

I don't believe splitting a Green sticker into A or B is part of CAC's mission or goal. Not that it could not be accomplished.

CAC tells people that A or B coins only are considered for a green sticker. Just thought it would be interesting to know which category their grading put our coins in so we can learn what constitutes an A coin as opposed to a B

While the text book definition of grading is the Sheldon scale. But the longer I have been in the game I have come to see it more as more a real time ranking of where does this coin slot into the chronicles of the hundreds of thousands of examples that slid thought these hands. Not that high point rub isn’t a ridged factor from 45 on down and mint surface remnants from 45 on up coupled to additions and subtractions based on marks, eye appeal, strike, luster quality and Je ne sais quoi.  

A and B is about minimal weighted subtractions based on the coin’s base range ( a VF gets more wiggle room than a 65) and how the coin presents based on its prescribed value against its peers as prescribed by the big two TPGs based on the accuracy of said grade.

To me CAC is already pretty clear in its definition and mission statement. It isn’t your coin is an A or a B it is “nice for the grade” or “Nicer than the grade by a bit”. That is already a generous delineation from a team of experts  

EarlyFederalCoinage

You really want to drive poor JA and the other CAC staff bonkers don’t you? Can you imagine the deluge of emails and phone calls from collectors inquiring (complaining) of why their prized trophy coin is not a “super green bean” candidate and had to settle for a good old fashioned plain green bean?

SilenceOfTheClams

Adding more features and options to a product or service has become indoctrinated in the public consciousness as always ‘good’.  Often, it ends up being the death of success.

m_wieder

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

Crypto

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

Stevie

Crypto said:

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

How can you create that confidence for a sight-unseen market? CAC is great for weeding out coins with surface problems like pvc putty high point friction etc, and excessive contact marks for the grade.The mission it accomplishes is accurate technical grading. But for collectors wanting to buy a solid graded coin with some level of eye appeal that is still a crapshoot as CAC makes no claims that a green sticker coin will have attractive luster, be free of spotting or surface debris , be well struck, have decent toning, etc. It doesn’t seem like CAC gives enough credit to very eye appealing coins, as he favors originality so much.

MarkFeld

Stevie said:

Crypto said:

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

How can you create that confidence for a sight-unseen market? CAC is great for weeding out coins with surface problems like pvc putty high point friction etc, and excessive contact marks for the grade.The mission it accomplishes is accurate technical grading. But for collectors wanting to buy a solid graded coin with some level of eye appeal that is still a crapshoot as CAC makes no claims that a green sticker coin will have attractive luster, be free of spotting or surface debris , be well struck, have decent toning, etc. It doesn’t seem like CAC gives enough credit to very eye appealing coins, as he favors originality so much.

Different collectors can have greatly varying levels of knowledge and markedly different preferences. And like it or not, there’s a lot of subjectivity to coin grading. So there’s no information that can be included on a grading label which will insure that a buyer will like the coin that accompanies it.

Stevie

MarkFeld said:

Stevie said:

Crypto said:

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

How can you create that confidence for a sight-unseen market? CAC is great for weeding out coins with surface problems like pvc putty high point friction etc, and excessive contact marks for the grade.The mission it accomplishes is accurate technical grading. But for collectors wanting to buy a solid graded coin with some level of eye appeal that is still a crapshoot as CAC makes no claims that a green sticker coin will have attractive luster, be free of spotting or surface debris , be well struck, have decent toning, etc. It doesn’t seem like CAC gives enough credit to very eye appealing coins, as he favors originality so much.

Different collectors can have greatly varying levels of knowledge and markedly different preferences. And like it or not, there’s a lot of subjectivity to coin grading. So there’s no information that can be included on a grading label which will insure that a buyer will like the coin that accompanies it.

I agree Mark. But to create a sight unseen market don’t you think it would at least have to have coins without dark toning, poor luster, detracting spotting or debris etc, wether the service is TPG or CAC?
The best thing for the collector is to buy CAC coins with superior eye appeal.

Crypto

Stevie said:

MarkFeld said:

Stevie said:

Crypto said:

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

How can you create that confidence for a sight-unseen market? CAC is great for weeding out coins with surface problems like pvc putty high point friction etc, and excessive contact marks for the grade.The mission it accomplishes is accurate technical grading. But for collectors wanting to buy a solid graded coin with some level of eye appeal that is still a crapshoot as CAC makes no claims that a green sticker coin will have attractive luster, be free of spotting or surface debris , be well struck, have decent toning, etc. It doesn’t seem like CAC gives enough credit to very eye appealing coins, as he favors originality so much.

Different collectors can have greatly varying levels of knowledge and markedly different preferences. And like it or not, there’s a lot of subjectivity to coin grading. So there’s no information that can be included on a grading label which will insure that a buyer will like the coin that accompanies it.

I agree Mark. But to create a sight unseen market don’t you think it would at least have to have coins without dark toning, poor luster, detracting spotting or debris etc, wether the service is TPG or CAC?
The best thing for the collector is to buy CAC coins with superior eye appeal.

I have seen dark coins rejected and haven’t seen too many (ever) CAC coins with neg eye appeal. Some neutral or not to my tastes but nothing negative to be a cancer in one’s case or box of 20. I say most dealers would be thrilled to buy CAC coins sight unseen at avg grade buy levels, if that is the case most collectors should too. 

Now should any collector with specific tastes buy any coin sight unseen at full retail or at an opportunity premium, never. 

SilenceOfTheClams

Stevie said:

MarkFeld said:

Stevie said:

Crypto said:

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

How can you create that confidence for a sight-unseen market? CAC is great for weeding out coins with surface problems like pvc putty high point friction etc, and excessive contact marks for the grade.The mission it accomplishes is accurate technical grading. But for collectors wanting to buy a solid graded coin with some level of eye appeal that is still a crapshoot as CAC makes no claims that a green sticker coin will have attractive luster, be free of spotting or surface debris , be well struck, have decent toning, etc. It doesn’t seem like CAC gives enough credit to very eye appealing coins, as he favors originality so much.

Different collectors can have greatly varying levels of knowledge and markedly different preferences. And like it or not, there’s a lot of subjectivity to coin grading. So there’s no information that can be included on a grading label which will insure that a buyer will like the coin that accompanies it.

I agree Mark. But to create a sight unseen market don’t you think it would at least have to have coins without dark toning, poor luster, detracting spotting or debris etc, wether the service is TPG or CAC?
The best thing for the collector is to buy CAC coins with superior eye appeal.

CAC isn’t creating a sight unseen market for you, it is creating a sight seen market for CAC.

MarkFeld

Stevie said:

MarkFeld said:

Stevie said:

Crypto said:

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

How can you create that confidence for a sight-unseen market? CAC is great for weeding out coins with surface problems like pvc putty high point friction etc, and excessive contact marks for the grade.The mission it accomplishes is accurate technical grading. But for collectors wanting to buy a solid graded coin with some level of eye appeal that is still a crapshoot as CAC makes no claims that a green sticker coin will have attractive luster, be free of spotting or surface debris , be well struck, have decent toning, etc. It doesn’t seem like CAC gives enough credit to very eye appealing coins, as he favors originality so much.

Different collectors can have greatly varying levels of knowledge and markedly different preferences. And like it or not, there’s a lot of subjectivity to coin grading. So there’s no information that can be included on a grading label which will insure that a buyer will like the coin that accompanies it.

I agree Mark. But to create a sight unseen market don’t you think it would at least have to have coins without dark toning, poor luster, detracting spotting or debris etc, wether the service is TPG or CAC?
The best thing for the collector is to buy CAC coins with superior eye appeal.

I don’t think CAC’s primary goal is the creation of a sight-unseen market - at least not beyond CAC making markets in CAC coins without seeing them (again).

While you might feel that the best thing for the collector is “to buy CAC coins with superior eye appeal”, there are plenty of collectors and dealers who are happy to buy coins that you might not like. Don’t forget, “eye appeal” is subjective, too.

Stevie

Crypto said:

Stevie said:

MarkFeld said:

Stevie said:

Crypto said:

m_wieder said:

One way to interpret a CAC sticker is:  "If you buy this coin sight-unseen, and you have a good collector's eye for this series, in our opinion you won't be disappointed."  CAC backs up this opinion by "drinking its own Kool-Aid" - it makes a market (sight-unseen) in CAC coins.  

@m_wieder Good point, I believe that was in JA market introduction statement for CAC that the sight unseen mission statement of PCGS had broken down and they were attempting to create that confidence again. 

How can you create that confidence for a sight-unseen market? CAC is great for weeding out coins with surface problems like pvc putty high point friction etc, and excessive contact marks for the grade.The mission it accomplishes is accurate technical grading. But for collectors wanting to buy a solid graded coin with some level of eye appeal that is still a crapshoot as CAC makes no claims that a green sticker coin will have attractive luster, be free of spotting or surface debris , be well struck, have decent toning, etc. It doesn’t seem like CAC gives enough credit to very eye appealing coins, as he favors originality so much.

Different collectors can have greatly varying levels of knowledge and markedly different preferences. And like it or not, there’s a lot of subjectivity to coin grading. So there’s no information that can be included on a grading label which will insure that a buyer will like the coin that accompanies it.

I agree Mark. But to create a sight unseen market don’t you think it would at least have to have coins without dark toning, poor luster, detracting spotting or debris etc, wether the service is TPG or CAC?
The best thing for the collector is to buy CAC coins with superior eye appeal.

I have seen dark coins rejected and haven’t seen too many (ever) CAC coins with neg eye appeal. Some neutral or not to my tastes but nothing negative to be a cancer in one’s case or box of 20. I say most dealers would be thrilled to buy CAC coins sight unseen at avg grade buy levels, if that is the case most collectors should too. 

Now should any collector with specific tastes buy any coin sight unseen at full retail or at an opportunity premium, never. 

I try to buy only A quality coins with very good eye appeal that will also pass CAC standards. 

While most CAC coins are attractive  I have seen some with spotting or dark debris that most collectors wouldn’t like, but overall they are a great service for the collector.