@CACfan asked: Steve, how do you think CAC should proceed? Should CAC charge fees for listing, membership, and actual sales? Should CAC thoroughly screen all users? Should CAC only allow collectors to list or dealers, too? Should CAC allow non-CAC transactions, like the CDN Exchange does?
There is so much fraud and other misconduct on Ebay, I am completely unsure about how I would administrate a similar trading platform.
@Winesteven replies: I’ll leave those details to the professionals setting it up. If there are fees, and they’re too high, I’d then just prefer to use any of the major auction houses, as they make everything so easy. My dozen or so sales on the other BST were all done to save the 10% - 15% in fees (auction houses with higher bp’s often negotiate better terms for some consignors to bring it down to the same 10-15%).
A B/S/T should be no-fee and no-indemnification, but limited to CAC approved coins IMO, and either collector-submitter members or those whom participate in this message board.
A B/S/T should be no-fee and no-indemnification, but limited to CAC approved coins IMO, and either collector-submitter members or those whom participate in this message board.
No. Sell your coins on the open forum, and make sure you have a reference from someone here. If not, pay up front and be done with it.
If CAC agrees to a BST forum may I suggest that CAC limit it to coin valued at $3000 or less in the beginning (or even a lower amount) to start it off successfully.
While I can certainly understand people wanting such a trading site, if I were CAC, I don’t think I’d offer it. There are already plenty of other options for buyers and sellers to interact and there would probably be more downside then upside to CAC.
In 15+ years on the PCGS BST I have had some of my most enjoyable transactions and never any fraud. I had one buyer who came back 5 months later after buying a lovely NGC45 rare date gold (clearly PCGS40) who wanted a full refund plus 100$ because it didn’t CAC even though I told him it was a PCGS 40 at time of sale. But even he took the “go jump in a lake” pretty well and apologized randomly after a bit of time. I wish I had taken it back as it has tripled in value since
typically not only does one make a sale there you make a pen pal and get to have real collector conversations. Better have good stuff though, picky crowd
If CAC goes to a BST addition I hope they add teeth to the plan. Besides rules of protection to buyers & sellers. Anyone who does business on it must fill out an application, provide proof of who they are ie copy of drivers lic and major cc. Maybe even pay a security deposit that is fully refundable after a certain length of time. I know what you guys are thinking, I am nuts with all this crap but I am tired of bad guys joining cac and ripping us off. We need to take responsibility in CAC's neighborhood. We should pay to play. Why should CAC be hassled if things should go South. If someone wants to transact then that someone should have to prove and pay, otherwise its going to be like the wild Wild West. Ebay has rules in place just for this, but that is their business and their business model accounts for what I am saying. Here its a privilege and CAC is not in the business to protect us. So we should protect ourselves, Just mho.
If CAC goes to a BST addition I hope they add teeth to the plan. Besides rules of protection to buyers & sellers.
Anyone who does business on it must fill out an application, provide proof of who they are ie copy of drivers lic and major cc. Maybe even pay a security deposit that is fully refundable after a certain length of time. I know what you guys are thinking, I am nuts with all this crap but I am tired of bad guys joining cac and ripping us off. We need to take responsibility in CAC's neighborhood. We should pay to play. Why should CAC be hassled if things should go South. If someone wants to transact then that someone should have to prove and pay, otherwise its going to be like the wild Wild West. Ebay has rules in place just for this, but that is their business and their business model accounts for what I am saying. Here its a privilege and CAC is not in the business to protect us. So we should protect ourselves, Just mho.
@realone That’s not necessarily true, the BST is more good than wild Wild West. If forms are required it become just another dealers outlet for the most part like collectors corner. Most established members know who is legit and not.
I do agree with making a time or post prerequisite for posting there. One possible option that wouldn’t be too onerous for CAC would be faxing a copy of drivers licenses to verify one’s identity
If CAC goes to a BST addition I hope they add teeth to the plan. Besides rules of protection to buyers & sellers. Anyone who does business on it must fill out an application, provide proof of who they are ie copy of drivers lic and major cc. Maybe even pay a security deposit that is fully refundable after a certain length of time. I know what you guys are thinking, I am nuts with all this crap but I am tired of bad guys joining cac and ripping us off. We need to take responsibility in CAC's neighborhood. We should pay to play. Why should CAC be hassled if things should go South. If someone wants to transact then that someone should have to prove and pay, otherwise its going to be like the wild Wild West. Ebay has rules in place just for this, but that is their business and their business model accounts for what I am saying. Here its a privilege and CAC is not in the business to protect us. So we should protect ourselves, Just mho.
Ebay is a retail site. Totally irrelevant and yes, it was a rant. Justifiable, but out of place. Not the first, but we're talking non-business transactions.
Wholesale-to-wholesale coin market transactions offer a better model for the collector-to-collector market.
The primary dealer-to-dealer trading platforms Coinplex, CCE and Facebook's CDHDC (Coin Dealers Helping Coin Dealers) all have at least a $100 monthly fee. None of them require a security deposit. In varying sets of circumstances a paid professional moderator can intervene and/or eject. All activity is self-policed,
I don't know if a resale certificate is required to join. I'd imagine that if you can get any of a long list of dealers to vouch (not guarantee) your creditworthiness, you can utilize that privately in introductory transactions. That IS how it works. Due diligence.
Nobody ships to anyone without due diligence. E-checks abound. Bad actors very quickly impair their national credibility (and credit) ----- Collectors Universe - B/S/T Forum CU Forum membership - no-fee Due diligence Self-policing with complaint-generated flagging to the moderator. Typical thread "Anyone here done business with Heritage? Can I take their check?" You'll get private messages if there's any negative issue. ----- Collectors Universe - Collectors Corner CU membership and(?) - $100 mo. No idea of the moderation. Due diligence. ----- CU Buy Sell Trade Forum's number of new offering listed each day is, with a much broader band-width, rather trivial.
Seems like the wheel is being reinvented.
Incomplete observations, but I can't figure out what's not reasonable and available elsewhere. The key in each instance is to take responsibility for yourself and use the communities you belong to as sources to inform your due diligence
@Crypto - Anyone can (and perhaps should) have a PO box for security reasons. Drivers licenses? - out the window
I will be a cold day in hell before I ever use Ebay to buy or sell again. I have been ripped off by a couple people on ebay with no help. when the heat really gets hot they just change their name and continue. As far as help from ebay, I bought some m1 carbine parts on ebay that were not usable. The seller will not returmn my money and ebay said that because they are gun parts the will not help either
Does a BST forum align with the company’s mission? If part of that mission is to enable collectors to have greater access to CAC coins, then a CAC coin only BST makes sense.
However, the business must also minimize risk and expenses like all types of for profit companies. A light touch approach recommended by those here where each participant accepts all risk makes sense to me (similar to PCGS BST). To do otherwise will require investment of labor expense to manage transactions and will increase potential company liability.
I will be a cold day in hell before I ever use Ebay to buy or sell again. I have been ripped off by a couple people on ebay with no help. when the heat really gets hot they just change their name and continue. As far as help from ebay, I bought some m1 carbine parts on ebay that were not usable. The seller will not returmn my money and ebay said that because they are gun parts the will not help either
If you paid by credit card, you can dispute the purchase with them. If the items were not what you ordered, you can keep them and still receive a refund, as per federal law. Otherwise, you need to return the items. If the seller refuses to accept your package, you can send it to your credit card company, who will act as intermediary.
But it will take months to sell and get paid on GC, assuming that you post a decent reserve. Ebay is nearly instant.
And I won an $8,000 coin on GC but it got lost/stolen right after they mailed it to me. GC cannot deal with me now because their insurance will not cover me, even though the package was lost/stolen in GC's zip code? I continued listing the coin for months after purchase, expecting it be found but ultimately it never was. I could have sold it 10 times over for a $4,000 profit.
In my opinion, GC should improve their packaging in order to prevent such losses. But they must be doing something right because they are now the number two coin auction house in dollar volume!
OT....
Accordingly, undeserving of a response, but GC has a highly-praised consignment settlement record that should be noted.
I’m confused. Why won’t GC deal with you? Aren’t they obligated to reimburse you for loss from shipping before you even received it? Maybe I missed something?
But it will take months to sell and get paid on GC, assuming that you post a decent reserve. Ebay is nearly instant.
And I won an $8,000 coin on GC but it got lost/stolen right after they mailed it to me. GC cannot deal with me now because their insurance will not cover me, even though the package was lost/stolen in GC's zip code? I continued listing the coin for months after purchase, expecting it be found but ultimately it never was. I could have sold it 10 times over for a $4,000 profit.
In my opinion, GC should improve their packaging in order to prevent such losses. But they must be doing something right because they are now the number two coin auction house in dollar volume!
OT.... Accordingly, undeserving of a response, but GC has a highly-praised consignment settlement record that should be noted.
I’m confused. Why won’t GC deal with you? Aren’t they obligated to reimburse you for loss from shipping before you even received it? Maybe I missed something?
Because GC's carrier will not insure shipments to my address because the coin they sent to it did not make it out of GC's zip code. I have no gripes against GC, just the USPS employee who stole my coin.
I see. Thanks for clarification. But that would mean that USPS would reimburse you via claim for the insured amount (which should be the amount you paid)?
Comments
There is so much fraud and other misconduct on Ebay, I am completely unsure about how I would administrate a similar trading platform.
@Winesteven replies: I’ll leave those details to the professionals setting it up. If there are fees, and they’re too high, I’d then just prefer to use any of the major auction houses, as they make everything so easy. My dozen or so sales on the other BST were all done to save the 10% - 15% in fees (auction houses with higher bp’s often negotiate better terms for some consignors to bring it down to the same 10-15%).
Steve
They should stick to what they do.
It works.
There are already plenty of other options for buyers and sellers to interact and there would probably be more downside then upside to CAC.
typically not only does one make a sale there you make a pen pal and get to have real collector conversations. Better have good stuff though, picky crowd
Anyone who does business on it must fill out an application, provide proof of who they are ie copy of drivers lic and major cc. Maybe even pay a security deposit that is fully refundable after a certain length of time. I know what you guys are thinking, I am nuts with all this crap but I am tired of bad guys joining cac and ripping us off. We need to take responsibility in CAC's neighborhood. We should pay to play. Why should CAC be hassled if things should go South. If someone wants to transact then that someone should have to prove and pay, otherwise its going to be like the wild Wild West. Ebay has rules in place just for this, but that is their business and their business model accounts for what I am saying. Here its a privilege and CAC is not in the business to protect us. So we should protect ourselves, Just mho.
Wholesale-to-wholesale coin market transactions offer a better model for the collector-to-collector market.
The primary dealer-to-dealer trading platforms Coinplex, CCE and Facebook's CDHDC (Coin Dealers Helping Coin Dealers) all have at least a $100 monthly fee.
None of them require a security deposit. In varying sets of circumstances a paid professional moderator can intervene and/or eject.
All activity is self-policed,
I don't know if a resale certificate is required to join. I'd imagine that if you can get any of a long list of dealers to vouch (not guarantee) your creditworthiness, you can utilize that privately in introductory transactions. That IS how it works.
Due diligence.
Nobody ships to anyone without due diligence. E-checks abound.
Bad actors very quickly impair their national credibility (and credit)
-----
Collectors Universe - B/S/T Forum
CU Forum membership - no-fee
Due diligence
Self-policing with complaint-generated flagging to the moderator.
Typical thread "Anyone here done business with Heritage? Can I take their check?"
You'll get private messages if there's any negative issue.
-----
Collectors Universe - Collectors Corner
CU membership and(?) - $100 mo.
No idea of the moderation.
Due diligence.
-----
CU Buy Sell Trade Forum's number of new offering listed each day is, with a much broader band-width, rather trivial.
Seems like the wheel is being reinvented.
Incomplete observations, but I can't figure out what's not reasonable and available elsewhere.
The key in each instance is to take responsibility for yourself and use the communities you belong to as sources to inform your due diligence
@Crypto - Anyone can (and perhaps should) have a PO box for security reasons. Drivers licenses? - out the window
Because GC's carrier will not insure shipments to my address because the coin they sent to it did not make it out of GC's zip code. I have no gripes against GC, just the USPS employee who stole my coin.