My local dealer is not a CAC member. I am not sure exactly why? He attends all the big shows and is no amateur. Living in Northern Michigan he is my only dealer in town. He has another dealer friend, 6 hour drive away, who will submit his coins to CAC for him. Anyhow, I have bought some lovely coins from him and cac stickered them for me Some pass some don't, but I am learning!! Sometimes they fail being just c coins, or unoriginal surfaces. He sometimes does leave money on the table to intise me? I am enjoying the hobby so I am happy!
Well, of course there's nothing wrong with trying to build "the best collection". On the other hand, it's far more admirable when done with great knowledge, connoisseurship, class, and a respect for both money and value.
The trade off building an all CAC collection is you may pass on a few terrific coins but you will avoid many avg or problem coins. In my opinion the majority of collectors buying coins $2500+ coins would derive more benefit buying only CAC coins. Of course, there a some collectors (less than people think) who can spot superior coins at a fair price that dont have the CAC sticker. The great thing, at the end of the day, everyone is free to collect in the way that brings them the most enjoyment.
The trade off building an all CAC collection is you may pass on a few terrific coins but you will avoid many avg or problem coins. In my opinion the majority of collectors buying coins $2500+ coins would derive more benefit buying only CAC coins. Of course, there a some collectors (less than people think) who can spot superior coins at a fair price that dont have the CAC sticker. The great thing, at the end of the day, everyone is free to collect in the way that brings them the most enjoyment.
Many collectors prefer to buy coins which are almost as nice, for less money. That applies to both non-CAC and CAC coins of the same grade as well as coins of any one grade, relative to others. There's almost always a tradeoff involving quality, beauty and price. Each individual has her/his own tradeoff point.
Well-conceived and expressed topic. It's refreshing to see it discussed so sanely and usefully.
@JACAC likes the 94-S 10c PR65+ (Eliasberg "second best" more than either of the PR66's and he stickered on of them.
So which of the three is best? IIRC he actually said it was the one he enjoyed looking at the most. His choice if he wanted to buy one for a buck
Mongkut I, THE King of Siam, expressed this most clearly in his movie "The King and I" where he declared "Ah, it is a puzzlement". And he knew Boolean algebra !!!
This less characterizes than caricatures the happy problem collectors have, and the more experienced the more opportunities will present themselves.
The lower the numerical grade, the more likely the collector has had broader experience in his "niches". My thinking is that overall wholesomeness and eye-appeal count for more than technical grade in more circumstances.
Set builders will consider more factors than Type collectors.
Consider "The highest-graded 1831 50c is ex: Pogue MS67 CAC and a decent "B" coin. You have a choice: A gorgeous 50 "A" with 45 detail that's a clear technical reject or a bland 53 "B" in 45 CAC gold?
Neither is "best" but sometimes better is "better". It's a puzzlement
As noted above, some sellers apparently choose to leave money on the table by not submitting to CAC for just $16 each the coins they are selling.
I think you may be projecting your wisdom onto others Some are ignorant, some are blind, some are stupid and "greed is good". There are opportunities to buy gold bullion at 15% over spot abounding and victims lining up to pay for the advertising. .
The $16 IS the biggest bargain in commercial numismatics. But you're preaching to the choir. The bean maximizes sale price at both ends. If you buy from a knowing dealer you'll be given a price that exceeds wholesale. It is NOT intended to leave money on the table. After they're beaned, the collector-owner will still be forced, because all markets operate on buy-sell, to leave money on the table at sale.
Except maybe collector-to-collector at the CU Buy/Sell/Trade Forum (which has been operating smoothly for a decade or two).
Well-conceived and expressed topic. It's refreshing to see it discussed so sanely and usefully.
@JACAC likes the 94-S 10c PR65+ (Eliasberg "second best" more than either of the PR66's and he stickered on of them.
So which of the three is best? IIRC he actually said it was the one he enjoyed looking at the most. His choice if he wanted to buy one for a buck
Mongkut I, THE King of Siam, expressed this most clearly in his movie "The King and I" where he declared "Ah, it is a puzzlement".
And he knew Boolean algebra !!!
This less characterizes than caricatures the happy problem collectors have, and the more experienced the more opportunities will present themselves.
The lower the numerical grade, the more likely the collector has had broader experience in his "niches". My thinking is that overall wholesomeness and eye-appeal count for more than technical grade in more circumstances.
Set builders will consider more factors than Type collectors.
Consider "The highest-graded 1831 50c is ex: Pogue MS67 CAC and a decent "B" coin.
You have a choice: A gorgeous 50 "A" with 45 detail that's a clear technical reject or a bland 53 "B" in 45 CAC gold?
Neither is "best" but sometimes better is "better". It's a puzzlement
Thanks for your compliment about the topic. And I 100% agree that it is SO refreshing to have discussions that are sane and not immeadtly derailed.
Your experiences differ from mine. I’ve never seen someone post that is bad to buy the best. I would venture to say that most collectors believe in buying the best they can afford and/or that makes sense. For those with the deepest pockets, that often means too pop.
The key to the discussion should be about buying the best a person can afford. My version is you can buy say an MS66 example if coin-just make it the best MS66 example you have ever seen. Its possible to do.
I learned long ago there always is a market for the best. As the Simpson coins come out, he is making good money on them. he stretched. It pays off buying real top quality.
The key to the discussion should be about buying the best a person can afford. My version is you can buy an MS66 example of a coin-just make it the best MS66 example you have ever seen. It’s possible to do.
I learned long ago there always is a market for the best. As the Simpson coins come out, he is making good money on them. He stretched. It pays off buying real top quality.
And when one comes across a coin in the grade you want, but it’s eye appeal is truly outstanding, as noted above it’s ok to “stretch” and overpay according to the price guides, since the price guides often treat these coins with truly outstanding eye appeal as “outliers”.
Here’s a 1936 Brilliant PR67+ PCGS w/CAC Buffalo Nickel I bought in May 2018 from the person I’m quoting. Any “distractions” you see are only in the photos and not on the coin. This coin must have been one of the very first ones struck from newly polished dies. While this is only a mid four figure coin, I feel I paid a very fair price at the time for the quality.
These discussions include the Everyman Registry as well imo. Sometimes the best quality someone can afford may not be a mint state coin but could be an amazingly nice AU58 with great eye appeal, original surfaces and overall a much better look than, say, a baggy MS-60-62 grade. Imo most MS62 graded coins are AU58s that made it on a good grading day for a crack out artist.
If you think about it, the majority of collectors don’t have deep pockets. The Everyman registry allows them to compete in an arena where they can showcase their choice circulated collections. It’s a good thing
I believe there are still alot of good coins out there in the hands of collectors that have yet to be submitted to CAC. For one thing, for now, membership is closed and one would have to go to the trouble of finding a dealer to help them submit. I too have become a mostly CAC only collector, but I still snag the odd coin or two that I suspect hasn't been submitted yet. I've found a dealer not too far away that's going to help me and I have my first CAC submission planned soon. But I could be wrong. Still kinda new.
I believe there are still alot of good coins out there in the hands of collectors that have yet to be submitted to CAC. For one thing, for now, membership is closed and one would have to go to the trouble of finding a dealer to help them submit. I too have become a mostly CAC only collector, but I still snag the odd coin or two that I suspect hasn't been submitted yet. I've found a dealer not too far away that's going to help me and I have my first CAC submission planned soon. But I could be wrong. Still kinda new.
I believe there are still alot of good coins out there in the hands of collectors that have yet to be submitted to CAC. For one thing, for now, membership is closed and one would have to go to the trouble of finding a dealer to help them submit. I too have become a mostly CAC only collector, but I still snag the odd coin or two that I suspect hasn't been submitted yet. I've found a dealer not too far away that's going to help me and I have my first CAC submission planned soon. But I could be wrong. Still kinda new.
Depends on the type of coin. If it is an old gold coin worth more than a few thousand dollars---a large majority have been to CAC. Otherwise, whoever is selling is leaving money on the table and most people try to avoid that. If it hasnt been to CAC then it may because the seller knows it has no chance.
@JohnTCoin , best of luck with your first submission. You should know that every few months or so CAC quietly reopens their roles, so I suggest you consider getting on their list.
While I fully agree many collectors have not submitted their coins to CAC, once they place the coins up for sale, I believe many of them get submitted at that time before a potential buyer has access.
If they sell it directly to a dealer, I believe many dealers will submit to CAC for just $16 a pop coins they think will pass before those dealers make them available for sale (why wouldn’t they? Why would a businessman, or businesswoman, leave money on the table????).
If they consign their coins to GC, Heritage, DLRC, Legend, Stacks, etc., they each make it so easy, seamless, and inexpensive to have their coins quickly submitted to CAC before being listed for sale.
As such, while I agree some coins up for sale with dealers or on auction have never been to CAC, in my opinion most coins over $500 or so at that final stage have probably seen the the inside of the offices of CAC, AT LEAST once, if not more!
Competition across all aspects of life is a positive thing as long as long as it doesn't consume you to the point of being ruthless. Striving to be the best only makes you sharper and being aware of your competitors is always a smart thing. One would be lying if they said they didn't care where they stood amongst their piers, though keeping it friendly in nature is most important.
I personally like being part of the registry set building community and enjoy trying to improve my set position as long as it doesn't drive me to making bad purchase decisions along the way. I really think long and hard before committing to a piece unless it makes sense and adds significant value. Playing right now in the current market has it challenges as it is easy to get too caught up and pay way over what is realistic. I have paid up for a few coins recently, but they have all been better date CAC'd coins which added what I believe to be good value and future potential to my collection.
On a side note, and without mentioning any names, does one with endless funding really need to enter two sets within the same category? Isn't being number one good enough any longer?
On a side note, and without mentioning any names, does one with endless funding really need to enter two sets within the same category? Isn't being number one good enough any longer?
I think while we agree with you, there could be another point of view that might make sense. But I have no idea what that might be!
Comments
Anyhow, I have bought some lovely coins from him and cac stickered them for me Some pass some don't, but I am learning!!
Sometimes they fail being just c coins, or unoriginal surfaces.
He sometimes does leave money on the table to intise me?
I am enjoying the hobby so I am happy!
@JACAC likes the 94-S 10c PR65+ (Eliasberg "second best" more than either of the PR66's and he stickered on of them.
So which of the three is best? IIRC he actually said it was the one he enjoyed looking at the most. His choice if he wanted to buy one for a buck
Mongkut I, THE King of Siam, expressed this most clearly in his movie "The King and I" where he declared "Ah, it is a puzzlement".
And he knew Boolean algebra !!!
This less characterizes than caricatures the happy problem collectors have, and the more experienced the more opportunities will present themselves.
The lower the numerical grade, the more likely the collector has had broader experience in his "niches". My thinking is that overall wholesomeness and eye-appeal count for more than technical grade in more circumstances.
Set builders will consider more factors than Type collectors.
Consider "The highest-graded 1831 50c is ex: Pogue MS67 CAC and a decent "B" coin.
You have a choice: A gorgeous 50 "A" with 45 detail that's a clear technical reject or a bland 53 "B" in 45 CAC gold?
Neither is "best" but sometimes better is "better". It's a puzzlement
The $16 IS the biggest bargain in commercial numismatics. But you're preaching to the choir. The bean maximizes sale price at both ends. If you buy from a knowing dealer you'll be given a price that exceeds wholesale. It is NOT intended to leave money on the table. After they're beaned, the collector-owner will still be forced, because all markets operate on buy-sell, to leave money on the table at sale.
Except maybe collector-to-collector at the CU Buy/Sell/Trade Forum (which has been operating smoothly for a decade or two).
Given that the "best" here may be graded lower, you really need to look at the coins.
I learned long ago there always is a market for the best. As the Simpson coins come out, he is making good money on them. he stretched. It pays off buying real top quality.
Here’s a 1936 Brilliant PR67+ PCGS w/CAC Buffalo Nickel I bought in May 2018 from the person I’m quoting. Any “distractions” you see are only in the photos and not on the coin. This coin must have been one of the very first ones struck from newly polished dies. While this is only a mid four figure coin, I feel I paid a very fair price at the time for the quality.
While I fully agree many collectors have not submitted their coins to CAC, once they place the coins up for sale, I believe many of them get submitted at that time before a potential buyer has access.
If they sell it directly to a dealer, I believe many dealers will submit to CAC for just $16 a pop coins they think will pass before those dealers make them available for sale (why wouldn’t they? Why would a businessman, or businesswoman, leave money on the table????).
If they consign their coins to GC, Heritage, DLRC, Legend, Stacks, etc., they each make it so easy, seamless, and inexpensive to have their coins quickly submitted to CAC before being listed for sale.
As such, while I agree some coins up for sale with dealers or on auction have never been to CAC, in my opinion most coins over $500 or so at that final stage have probably seen the the inside of the offices of CAC, AT LEAST once, if not more!
Steve
You can become buried in any coin CAC sticker or lack thereof notwithstanding.
I personally like being part of the registry set building community and enjoy trying to improve my set position as long as it doesn't drive me to making bad purchase decisions along the way. I really think long and hard before committing to a piece unless it makes sense and adds significant value. Playing right now in the current market has it challenges as it is easy to get too caught up and pay way over what is realistic. I have paid up for a few coins recently, but they have all been better date CAC'd coins which added what I believe to be good value and future potential to my collection.
On a side note, and without mentioning any names, does one with endless funding really need to enter two sets within the same category? Isn't being number one good enough any longer?