Do silver coins, once dipped, tone more rapidly?

mellado

From my experience, dipping an old silver coin & removing its patina to blast white, Ive seen such coins placed in the sun under a convex glass “ globe” tones very rapidly in beautiful natural colors, not affecting the underlying lustre. This may well
explain “ natural” iridescent color so highly
prized these times. Oldtimers will recall the 1960s where toning was out & blast white was “in”. I firmly believe today’s prized iridescent toning is not that old in many cases - and I’m not referring to artificially applied toning.

Realone

Not only have I heard this to be true, I have silver coins that are gorgeously toned that once were blast white, and when a 200 year old silver coin is blast white it had to have been dipped. I am not a chemist but I remember hearing or reading that when a coin is dipped it becomes prime for any and all toning to color the piece when stored in a sulphur wrapped/touching container.

oreville

Yes. This is why I avoid dipping them.

oreville

I also remember the silver coin dipping craze of the late 1960’s. i experimented with it on 1964 dated quarters. It taught me to avoid dipping.

Wabbit

mellado said:

From my experience, dipping an old silver coin & removing its patina to blast white, Ive seen such coins placed in the sun under a convex glass “ globe” tones very rapidly in beautiful natural colors,

Just wondering what the glass globe does? Clear glass?

BillJones

In my opinion the key factor is weather or not the reagent that was used to remove the tarnish has been properly rinsed. If it has not been properly rinsed, the coin usually re-tones very rapidly, and the results can be really ugly. That's why I refuse to buy old bright white coins in new or even middle aged slabs. The risk is too high.

I have owned bright white silver coins for many years, and seen very little change in them. The keys are consistent storage temperatures and keeping the coins away from contaminants, like sulfur. I have owned these two coins for over 20 years. You can love them or hate them because they are not "original." I can tell you that some of the stuff I own now, that some of you might think is "original" was white at one time.






This 1803 half dime was bright white when I saw for the first time in the late 1990s. This coin was pictured in Walter Breen's Encyclopedia.

ptolemyII

mellado said:

From my experience, dipping an old silver coin & removing its patina to blast white, Ive seen such coins placed in the sun under a convex glass “ globe” tones very rapidly in beautiful natural colors, not affecting the underlying lustre. This may well
explain “ natural” iridescent color so highly
prized these times. Oldtimers will recall the 1960s where toning was out & blast white was “in”. I firmly believe today’s prized iridescent toning is not that old in many cases - and I’m not referring to artificially applied toning.

The colors that appear after the "dome" treatment are the result of the heating of the shellac or other chemicals already within/upon the surface beneath the "globe". Any glass container can trap gases. Walk down the paint aisle at your local big-box and you could, with judicious experimentation, create a scratch-and-sniff rainbow without a color chart. And roll your dice. Of course, some dipped Morgans don't have the same surface fabric as 1881-S', so they'd take color somewhat differently with the same chemicals. Standing Quarters strikes and surfaces sometimes differ dramatically from Walkers of the same year and mint.

Much of it is high school chemistry. A key datum to keep in mind is that the older (and more primitive) production materials (planchets, dies) and methods (type of press, die pressure variances) were producing the least-consistently made coins.

Insider3

Bill,

The 1803 was not neutralized properly and now shows "brown dip stains."

I had never heard of the "globe treatment." Great idea! Perhaps the coin should be placed on a small glass sheet before the dome is applied. Or, would that defeat the desired method of coloring the coin. If the coin were placed on glass, then a drop of any chemical could be placed under the dome with the coin.

There are some numismatists who know more than they will ever reveal. I guess we need to experiment for ourselves to be able to identify "domed" coins but who has the time?

Bushmaster

Yes the glass itself is basically inert and simply serves to concentrate the gases being emitted by whatever substrate is under the dome (think oak, varnish, stain, etc.) Any clear drinking glass should function as well as a dome.

ptolemyII

Insider3 said:

There are some numismatists who know more than they will ever reveal. I guess we need to experiment for ourselves to be able to identify "domed" coins but who has the time?

And how did those numismatists acquire that knowledge? They experimented.
Who has the time???? Indeed !!!!!!
Give you a fish and you eat today..............................

Here's a fish...... every coin dipped in thioureic acid has had ions activated.
For silver only.
Take a large drinking glass with warm water and dissolve a few tablespoons of baking soda in it. You will not rub your coin with the abrasive slurry at the bottom..
Stir and let it settle for a few minutes.
Pour the topmost liquid into a small bowl to a depth of 3".
Dip your coin in E-Z-est.
Rinse it under hot water at the sink.
Immerse it for 30 seconds in the basic solution which will neutralize any ongoing chemical activity activated by the acid.
Rinse in hot water at the sink.

Realone

I understand that many collectors, a massive amount of dealers and most coin doctors dip coins to improve their appearance and grades.
I have not and will not, period.

ptolemyII

Realone said:

I understand that many collectors, a massive amount of dealers and most coin doctors dip coins to improve their appearance and grades.
I have not and will not, period.

If you have any MS66 "C" coins that will dip out to 65+ "B" coins, send them to me and I'll contribute your share of the profits to the nearest food bank How's that for moral ambiguity?

Insider3

ptolemyII said:

Insider3 said:

There are some numismatists who know more than they will ever reveal. I guess we need to experiment for ourselves to be able to identify "domed" coins but who has the time?

And how did those numismatists acquire that knowledge? They experimented.
Who has the time???? Indeed !!!!!!
Give you a fish and you eat today..............................

Here's a fish...... every coin dipped in thioureic acid has had ions activated.
For silver only.
Take a large drinking glass with warm water and dissolve a few tablespoons of baking soda in it. You will not rub your coin with the abrasive slurry at the bottom..
Stir and let it settle for a few minutes.
Pour the topmost liquid into a small bowl to a depth of 3".
Dip your coin in E-Z-est.
Rinse it under hot water at the sink.
Immerse it for 30 seconds in the basic solution which will neutralize any ongoing chemical activity activated by the acid.
Rinse in hot water at the sink.

Thanks for the basic fishing lesson. This would not even get you on the dock of my fishing excursion much less on the boat!.

ptolemyII

Insider3 said:

ptolemyII said:

Insider3 said:

There are some numismatists who know more than they will ever reveal. I guess we need to experiment for ourselves to be able to identify "domed" coins but who has the time?

And how did those numismatists acquire that knowledge? They experimented.
Who has the time???? Indeed !!!!!!
Give you a fish and you eat today..............................

Here's a fish...... every coin dipped in thioureic acid has had ions activated.
For silver only.
Take a large drinking glass with warm water and dissolve a few tablespoons of baking soda in it. You will not rub your coin with the abrasive slurry at the bottom..
Stir and let it settle for a few minutes.
Pour the topmost liquid into a small bowl to a depth of 3".
Dip your coin in E-Z-est.
Rinse it under hot water at the sink.
Immerse it for 30 seconds in the basic solution which will neutralize any ongoing chemical activity activated by the acid.
Rinse in hot water at the sink.

Thanks for the basic fishing lesson. This would not even get you on the dock of my fishing excursion much less on the boat!.

I've seen you teach. What can I say besides "Man Overboard !!"
Beam me up, Scotty !

Insider3

True. Many of my opinions are not of this world.

PS By divulging the "water trick," I now know who you are. Stay safe and healthy my friend.

Wabbit

Deleted

Wabbit

Insider3 said:

ptolemyII said:

Insider3 said:

There are some numismatists who know more than they will ever reveal. I guess we need to experiment for ourselves to be able to identify "domed" coins but who has the time?

And how did those numismatists acquire that knowledge? They experimented.
Who has the time???? Indeed !!!!!!
Give you a fish and you eat today..............................

Here's a fish...... every coin dipped in thioureic acid has had ions activated.
For silver only.
Take a large drinking glass with warm water and dissolve a few tablespoons of baking soda in it. You will not rub your coin with the abrasive slurry at the bottom..
Stir and let it settle for a few minutes.
Pour the topmost liquid into a small bowl to a depth of 3".
Dip your coin in E-Z-est.
Rinse it under hot water at the sink.
Immerse it for 30 seconds in the basic solution which will neutralize any ongoing chemical activity activated by the acid.
Rinse in hot water at the sink.

Thanks for the basic fishing lesson. This would not even get you on the dock of my fishing excursion much less on the boat!.

yovocir492

Mexican silver coins that have been dipped or cleaned using certain methods may tone more rapidly compared to coins that have not undergone such treatments. When a silver coin is dipped, it means that a chemical solution is used to remove tarnish or surface impurities from the coin. However, this process can also strip away the natural protective patina that develops on the coin's surface over time.

The patina on a silver coin is a thin layer of oxide that forms as the coin interacts with the environment. It helps protect the underlying metal from further corrosion and toning. When the patina is removed through dipping, the silver is exposed directly to the air, moisture, and other elements, which can accelerate the toning process.

Toning is the natural process where silver coins develop various colors or a rainbow-like appearance due to the interaction of the metal with environmental factors, such as sulfur compounds in the air. The presence of the patina helps slow down this process to some extent.

Without the protective layer, the coin can tone more rapidly since the bare silver surface is more vulnerable to oxidation and the effects of the surrounding environment. As a result, the coin may start to develop toning and change in appearance more quickly after being dipped.

It's important to note that coin collectors often have different preferences when it comes to toning. Some collectors appreciate the natural toning that develops over time, while others prefer coins that have been professionally graded and encapsulated to prevent further toning. Coin cleaning, including dipping, can potentially affect the value of a coin for collectors, and it's generally recommended to consult with experts or do thorough research before attempting any cleaning methods on valuable coins.