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CAC vs. PCGS Plus without CAC market values

JW77JW77
in General
I would appreciate some thoughts on the group regarding market value on CAC stickered coins vs a plus coin that does not have the coveted bean. My question is particularly geared towards the better end of the market. The best way to explain would be to give a hypothetical example:
Common Morgan Dollar PCGS pop 12 in MS67 with 6 coins CAC. PCGS pop 2 Coins in MS67+ but neither CAC, and PCGS pop 1 in 68 no CAC. So we are talking about condition rarities in this example. A PCGS MS67 CAC comes to market and one of the PCGS MS67+ comes to market. Both go to an auction house in the same auction. Which coin goes for more, the 67+ with no CAC or the 67 CAC. What are your thoughts, which would you bid more on? Are they about equal in value, is the 67+ higher value because of the registry benefit, or is the CAC coin king of the house. Look forward to hearing the responses.
CAC vs Plus Values
  1. Which coin has the higher market value15 votes
    1. PCGS MS67 with CAC
      73.33%
    2. PCGS MS67+
      26.67%

Comments

  • MeantToBeSpentMeantToBeSpent
    Many other conditions would affect the price, especially what the two coins look like and if there's an obvious difference or if the difference is just personal preference. And what is that personal preference of the top 2 interested buyers, in the qualities of the coins, and in what registry sets interest them or don't interest them?

    I would pay more for the coin I liked every time (ignoring labels/stickers). Without knowing anything at all about the coins though, I guess I'd choose the cac one just because I trust cac more than I trust pcgs.
  • JW77JW77
    very true, good feedback
  • MeantToBeSpentMeantToBeSpent
    Actually, the biggest factor is likely what the market history has been thus far. For example when was the ms68 graded? Was an ms67+ the pcgs top pop for a long time and was a super high price for them already established? Or are the ms67+ coins new additions to the pop report, while the CAC ones already have a robust pricing history? Are the non-cac ms67s super low end (er downright overgraded) or decent coins? Lots of things to consider.

    Even though I voted for the CAC coin as what I would pay more for, I tend to suspect with the way the market works, that in most of these cases the + grade coins would sell for more.

    35-d halves are a great illustration of exactly what you're asking. Pop 9/0 ms66+s sell for about the same amount (or even a bit less) as a cac ms66 (maybe 4k to 6k). Compared to other dates they seem hugely undervalued but I guess most of those ms66+ coins are still poorly struck not so great looking coins, and that combined with a robust pricing history (and less market manipulation in my opinion) has held them down.




  • totallyoriginaltotallyoriginal
    MeantToBeSpent said:

    Many other conditions would affect the price, especially what the two coins look like and if there's an obvious difference or if the difference is just personal preference. And what is that personal preference of the top 2 interested buyers, in the qualities of the coins, and in what registry sets interest them or don't interest them?

    I would pay more for the coin I liked every time (ignoring labels/stickers). Without knowing anything at all about the coins though, I guess I'd choose the cac one just because I trust cac more than I trust pcgs.

    +1
  • CoinbufCoinbuf
    While I suspect that there are too many variables to be a yes or no answer most of the time, I suspect that the CAC coin will win out a majority of the time. I also think that many of those CAC coins are destined to be resubmitted at some time.
  • JW77JW77
    Coinbuf said:

    While I suspect that there are too many variables to be a yes or no answer most of the time, I suspect that the CAC coin will win out a majority of the time. I also think that many of those CAC coins are destined to be resubmitted at some time.

    Great feedback guys, appreciate it. I may even have the opportunity to put it to the test in the next SB auction
  • Phil619Phil619
    edited April 2022
    Considering the 1881-S Dollar PCGS 67+ no sticker CF MV $1650 and PCGS CAC 67 MC per CPG 67 MV $1140 the 67+ Seems to have the edge MV wise. It has the edge in fewer graded higher by Pcgs too.

    However bidders are the wild card and if one coin inferior due to marks, spots, eye appeal, strike all bets are off. It’s tough for me make generalizations on that example. It comes down to the coin and taste of individual bidders plus pop / # higher considerations. Grade on holder seems to trump unless that piece low end. Furthermore the CAC premium is just $148 for the CAC 67. At $1000 plus range and wanting CAC, I would want the CAC 67 piece (CAC Assurance) and believe could move it quicker.



  • EarlyFederalCoinageEarlyFederalCoinage
    edited March 2022
    Top pop or not for the service? What is the price point of the next grade up? What is the price spread for generic grade to plus grade without CAC? CAC population?

    A generic 67 CAC Morgan is probably a $1,000 - $1,200 coin. A 67+ is probably a $2,200 - $2,500 coin.

    For a better date seated dollar or gobrecht dollar, the CAC coin without the plus probably would sell for more.
  • Vincent.SavageVincent.Savage
    Last night I bid up to $10,600.00 on a 1906 $5 Liberty ms 66+ CAC over at GC.    

     The other person went one more increment to $11,100.00 and won the bid .  

    Rare Coin Review has a CAC 66 at $7,250 and the 67 at $27,300

     The CoinFacts wasn’t very helpful . Thus why I wish more people would call in winning bid amounts .

    So I’m curious , what do you think would be fair max value versus overpaying on this 1906 Five 66+ CAC ?

    I did win the 1880 $1 Gold ms 68 CAC so last night was a success overall .  I think it’s going to look amazing in hand .
  • WilliamJWilliamJ
    That 1880 $ looks almost cameo. Nice coin!
     I bid on that one also but dropped out.
    I bet you will like it.
  • Vincent.SavageVincent.Savage
    WilliamJ said:
    That 1880 $ looks almost cameo. Nice coin!
     I bid on that one also but dropped out.
    I bet you will like it.
    Yes it sure does at first glance to my “ uneducated “ eyes … 🤓

     Im comfortable with the hammer price as well.   
    Hopefully they ship it out today and I’ll post it tomorrow. 
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat
    Congrats on the gold dollar! It’s my favorite series. Wish I could see that in hand and take a pic. I see so many coins I wish I could see and try my hand at photographing, lol. 
  • johnjohn
    Vincent.Savage said:


    WilliamJ said:

    That 1880 $ looks almost cameo. Nice coin!
     I bid on that one also but dropped out.
    I bet you will like it.

    Yes it sure does at first glance to my “ uneducated “ eyes … 🤓

     Im comfortable with the hammer price as well.   
    Hopefully they ship it out today and I’ll post it tomorrow. 


    This is the replacement Board name for.... Columbiano was it?....going forward? I don't want to confuse a reply.
  • Vincent.SavageVincent.Savage
    john said:
    WilliamJ said:
    That 1880 $ looks almost cameo. Nice coin!
     I bid on that one also but dropped out.
    I bet you will like it.
    Yes it sure does at first glance to my “ uneducated “ eyes … 🤓

     Im comfortable with the hammer price as well.   
    Hopefully they ship it out today and I’ll post it tomorrow. 
    This is the replacement Board name for.... Columbiano was it?....going forward? I don't want to confuse a reply.
    Yes I decided to use my name .  This way I’m accountable for every comment … 🤓🙈🤦🏻‍♂️
  • JW77JW77
    Vincent.Savage said:

    Last night I bid up to $10,600.00 on a 1906 $5 Liberty ms 66+ CAC over at GC.    


     The other person went one more increment to $11,100.00 and won the bid .  

    Rare Coin Review has a CAC 66 at $7,250 and the 67 at $27,300

     The CoinFacts wasn’t very helpful . Thus why I wish more people would call in winning bid amounts .

    So I’m curious , what do you think would be fair max value versus overpaying on this 1906 Five 66+ CAC ?

    I did win the 1880 $1 Gold ms 68 CAC so last night was a success overall .  I think it’s going to look amazing in hand .
    beautiful coin, congrats
  • LegendLegend
    Vincent: as long as you are an active collector, it is NOT wise to use your full name.
  • Vincent.SavageVincent.Savage
    Legend said:
    Vincent: as long as you are an active collector, it is NOT wise to use your full name.
    Im fully aware of the possibilities.   I’ve had dealings with armed robbers in the past more then once.   Perhaps I shouldn’t press my luck .  I’ll request a modification.  Thank you 
  • LegendLegend
    No, its called dealers taking shots at you. You WILL run into your self.
  • Phil619Phil619
    edited April 2022
    The other bidder put in a nuclear bid. He may have had a max bid in that was even higher.  However at that level who’s to say some wealthy buyer who just has to have it would not pay more.

    In terms of pricing where no CAC value for plus I would take CF premium factor for plus x the CAC 66 value as starting point but the way they bidding them up cost plus would come into play.  Then you have the problem who gonna pay the money.  Not my cup of tea.  

    Frankly in doing that math I think the winner possibly overpaid for it.  However it’s their money / hobby.  People pay more for car mods / upgrades.  
  • Vincent.SavageVincent.Savage
    Legend said:
    No, its called dealers taking shots at you. You WILL run into your self.
    That actually has just happened .   🤦🏻‍♂️🙈
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