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Restoring Coins in Details Slabs

There are ways to restore SOME Details coins to PCGS/NGC problem-free status. I have done it many times, so do not say that it cannot be done. Without giving away any trade secrets, you simply enable/accelerate natural processes. But CAC does not like restored coins, so the only green that you will see is the money from the sales and the envy of other coin dealers.

There is one dealer on Ebay (a former employee of a famous auction firm) who actually discloses his doctoring of raw and certified coins. I had talked him into doing it. His credibility and sales have increased as a result.

Our firm also reveals any conservation of certified coins (we do not sell raw coins), but it does not seem to effect buying decisions in the least, we believe because we deal only in rarities and collectors are happy to find any examples to fill their slots.

Legend and Goldberg may be the only top-tier auction firms who also make such disclosures on a regular basis.
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Comments

  • What’s your company?
  • What’s your company?

    I ain't sayin', given the highly litigious nature of this industry (who knows how someone could construe my posts on this site?). The truth is an absolute defense against defamation but that does not stop arrogant, ultra-wealthy bullies from filing frivolous lawsuits that get dismissed on summary judgements but cost victims untold thousands in attorneys' fees.

    And I wish you luck at legitimately suing such bullies, one of whom countersued a plaintiff and his attorney who were merely trying to recover losses from "investments" in overpriced modern junk, forcing the plaintiff to withdraw the valid suit. Curiously, the bully never publicly denied certain of the allegations made in the lawsuit, which to me is a de facto admission of guilt.
  • Well, lots of well known dealers have certainly made their companies known here and elsewhere without worrying about this “highly litigious nature” of the industry. 

    You make many assertions as fact but other than a screenshot of eBay you posted once there is nothing to back up your bold assertions. 
  • TurtleCat said:

    Well, lots of well known dealers have certainly made their companies known here and elsewhere without worrying about this “highly litigious nature” of the industry. 


    You make many assertions as fact but other than a screenshot of eBay you posted once there is nothing to back up your bold assertions. 
    Actually, very few wealthy dealers who post hereon display their real names. Some graders and researchers do but most if not all are small potatoes, income-wise, and thus have little to lose. Also, I have revealed a few industry secrets; they have not and are thus less vulnerable to litigation. If M were still alive, he would have already frivolously sued me for exposing his bleach trick. The truth is an absolute defense against defamation, so the case would have been dismissed on a summary judgement but I would still be out attorneys' fees with no guarantee of recovery from him.

    By the way, what is YOUR name? Hypocritical much?
  • CACfan said:

    TurtleCat said:

    Well, lots of well known dealers have certainly made their companies known here and elsewhere without worrying about this “highly litigious nature” of the industry. 


    You make many assertions as fact but other than a screenshot of eBay you posted once there is nothing to back up your bold assertions. 
    Actually, very few wealthy dealers who post hereon display their real names. Some graders and researchers do but most if not all are small potatoes, income-wise, and thus have little to lose. Also, I have revealed a few industry secrets; they have not and are thus less vulnerable to litigation. If M were still alive, he would have already frivolously sued me for exposing his bleach trick. The truth is an absolute defense against defamation, so the case would have been dismissed on a summary judgement but I would still be out attorneys' fees with no guarantee of recovery from him.

    By the way, what is YOUR name? Hypocritical much?
    I never proclaimed to be a dealer with insider information. I have stated from the start that I'm a collector. Therefore why do I need to share my identity? I am making no claims and assertions similar to you. Although people who have followed me long enough will have a good idea who I am. I have met at least a dozen in person over the years.

    I can think of quite a few dealers here and on CU that use their business name or last name as their forum ID and if you read through you'll figure out who most are.

    You do have a lot of conspiracy theories and lots of assertions about your business but I have no way of determining whether you can back up any of it or not. The industry secrets that I have read here that you have shared are pretty well known if you've read forums long enough.

    Well, I've wasted enough time on this. Happy Friday!
  • Why would I have to prove anything to you? Are you the owner of this website? The actual owners know who I am and can easily verify my claims. For most commenters, this is an anonymous forum. If you dislike my comments, do not read them. You will not reveal your name yet complain that I will not disclose mine. You are as hypocritical and sanctimonious as they come.
  • What kinds of "details" graded problems have you restored? PVC still gets bodybagged, so I presume it is not that.
  • And what detail categories are the most acceptable to this successful restoration, i.e. rim nicks, light hairline cleaning, etc.
  • edited May 4

    What kinds of "details" graded problems have you restored? PVC still gets bodybagged, so I presume it is not that.

    Lightly hairlined coins are the details grouping with the highest incidence of "correctable" problems.

    Some of these are amenable to having toning induced by livers of sulfur when other environmental factors, such as heat, are incorporated. Such information and more has been taught at ANA Summer Seminar for over a decade, and elsewhere too. Not deep-down-dark-and-dirty secrets of the trade. Not late-breaking news.
  • ptolemyII said:

    What kinds of "details" graded problems have you restored? PVC still gets bodybagged, so I presume it is not that.

    Lightly hairlined coins are the details grouping with the highest incidence of "correctable" problems.

    Some of these are amenable to having toning induced by livers of sulfur when other environmental factors, such as heat, are incorporated. Such information and more has been taught at ANA Summer Seminar for over a decade, and elsewhere too. Not deep-down-dark-and-dirty secrets of the trade. Not late-breaking news.
    The ANA teaches coin doctoring?
  • edited May 4
    A few of the teachers, like former ANA President Bob Campbell and myself, have demonstrated coin doctoring in situ so the students can recognize the results. Before Covid, CAC grader Bill Shamhart had run an ANA master class in Advanced Grading and Problem Coins for a couple of decades.

    One year I took a few lightly wiped AU Morgans and flash-dunked them in very highly diluted. When I'd done this to 1889-CC $1s from AU details holders ($1700), I had put a half dozen or more into 53 and 55 holders ($4500+). >:) Set a thief to catch a thief, aye?

    I was immersing those $20 Morgans in highly diluted bleach for the students so that they would recognize the coins they might encounter at lower price levels messed with in the same way. o:)
  • Hmmm I thought the PCGS Secure "coin sniffer" was supposed to detect stuff like that.
  • ptolemyII said:
    A few of the teachers, like former ANA President Bob Campbell and myself, have demonstrated coin doctoring in situ so the students can recognize the results. Before Covid, CAC grader Bill Shamhart had run an ANA master class in Advanced Grading and Problem Coins for a couple of decades. One year I took a few lightly wiped AU Morgans and flash-dunked them in very highly diluted. When I'd done this to 1889-CC $1s from AU details holders ($1700), I had put a half dozen or more into 53 and 55 holders ($4500+). >:) Set a thief to catch a thief, aye? I was immersing those $20 Morgans in highly diluted bleach for the students so that they would recognize the coins they might encounter at lower price levels messed with in the same way. o:)
    Does that bleach solution dull, or change the luster on the coins? For better or worse?
  • edited May 5

    Hmmm I thought the PCGS Secure "coin sniffer" was supposed to detect stuff like that.

    The PCGS sniffer was a sham from the day it was announced.
    WilliamJ said:


    Does that bleach solution dull, or change the luster on the coins? For better or worse?

    It dulls the coin down. But the key is that the most objectionable distraction, hairlines, is most dramatically negated while the overall look of the coin is only hurt a half-tone. It's fairly well controllable with practice; less is more with high school chemistry in titrating reactants. The remaining frost is not gone, but muted. However, this is a process in which you get only one bite at the apple. Once the bleach hits the surfaces the change is rapid. When the coin comes out of the bleach it must immediately be dipped in Jewel-Luster to arrest the toning process. The resultant piece (and this can vary based on date or mint) will lose but a little of its sheen. However, the many lite hairlines formerly visible will have lost the annoying sparkle at the bottom of those scratches when the coin is tilted.

  • Interesting 
  • It's not so much knowing how to technically perform the processes as it is to be able to recognize the results. I explicated this technique in the hope that @CACfan might share one of his least morally and legally objectionable tricks with us. :#
  • edited May 5
    Does the bleach solution work the same on gold and copper coins  as it does with silver coins? Or at least similar?
  • When Steve Ivy was just hawking coins prior to the great rise in fortune, I ordered a coin and ......thought.....I could dip it into greatness.
    NOPE !!
    But a bleaching got it right back to returnable condition.
    o:)
  • WilliamJ said:

    Does the bleach solution work the same on gold and copper coins  as it does with silver coins? Or at least similar?

    Only silver
  • Bleach then jewel-luster, wow, a dangerous combination if done exactly in the right dilution.
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