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Why are PCGS beaned coins considered better coins than NGC beaned coins?

edited March 2022 in General
John Albanese is held in such high regard ( as he should) and he beans two coins ( same date/type) one in a PCGS holder and the other NGC holder.....
why do collectors crave the PCGS beaned coin over the NGC beaned coin? Afterall both coins have been blessed by JA.

Is it because they bring more at auction? And if so does that create a better buying opportunity for the NGC beaned coins to be bought?

Seems to me experienced collectors would want to buy the coin and not the the holder.
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Comments

  • Many collectors drink the Kool-Aid.
  • I like the orange flavor 😋 
  • People, especially collecting oriented people, do not always act rationally.
  • NGC has too many bad coins in their holders period and seem to grade more commercially.

    PCGS has done an outstanding job of marketing for their product. There is no question PCGS CAC coins bring the most money.

    Also, the PCGS registry is far stronger and bigger.

  • A major reason is that the PCGS registry only allows PCGS coins to be listed.
  • Legend said:

    NGC has too many bad coins in their holders period and seem to grade more commercially.

    PCGS has done an outstanding job of marketing for their product. There is no question PCGS CAC coins bring the most money.

    Also, the PCGS registry is far stronger and bigger.

    Logical comments, but (there is always a "but"), the CAC opinion....a green and/or gold award.... equalizes the observation that NGC has too many bad coins, by eliminating that concern of which piece is more acceptable based on superlative quality, does it not?

    The OP is asking why if there is equality based on the CAC opinion, why should a person pay more for a PCGS piece?

    Granted, advertising and Registry proficiency certainly influences some (maybe a majority) of collectors, and I would think collectors participating in the PCGS Registry are deciding between the 2 offerings because of that.

    People are People. The individual will make a choice based on self interest and preference. However, the reply has a presentation of supporting inequality. Given the scenario the OP presented, would and should a Dealer inform the buyer that the PCGS piece is "superior" as a choice? If I approach the Dealer and inform the Dealer I do not participate in the Registry, and the piece will be, for the foreseeable future, "off the Market", what does it matter that a TPG has too many bad coins graded in the past? Both coins are equality in the OP Post, are they not, by virtue of having a CAC sticker?

    I am also curious about another aspect of the reply. Realizing I don't get out much, I would like to know what the meaning of "grade more commercially" means, as I have never come across this observation as an applied buy/sell decision process. I can surmise it means a TPG is more forgiving about a condition that influences the Grading opinion, but that does not transfer as a logical reason to buy only a PCGS coin that has been passed by CAC, over an NGC coins that has been passed by CAC.
  • I will post these pictures and let people comment. Both of these Classic Head $5 gold coins are graded AU-58.

    This one is in an Old Green Label (OGL) PCGS AU-58 holder. It has no CAC sticker, but I'm guessing that it has never been submitted. I bought it in an auction run by one of the big houses 5 and a half years ago.



    This one is NGC AU-58 CAC graded.




    Which one do you like better?
  • Catbert said:

    A major reason is that the PCGS registry only allows PCGS coins to be listed.

    Yet, I think that NGC still allows PCGS coins in their Registry Sets?
  • CAC beans certainly help move my coins, whether NGC or PCGS. For many of the key, semi-key, and low mintage coins in which I deal, buyers do not seem too concerned about NGC versus PCGS. They just want something to fill their slot.
  • The CAC bean even’s things out in my opinion. I do prefer PCGS CAC coins almost entirely because the market pays more for them. I think NGC is a bit more liberal with their grading but both companies need to tighten up quite a bit imho. NGC looks even worse because a lot of the better coins they grade get crossed to pcgs.
  • Super legitimate question the OP has posed.

    A lot of it seems to be sheep mentality. We have had it drilled into our heads that PCGS coins, in general, are just BETTER.

    But I have been employing contrary thinking this last 18 months or so and been profiting nicely: I am finding that by selectively seeking out NICE NGC proof coins (mostly PF68CAMEO), and cracking them out and sending to PCGS I am getting higher grades. This really flies in the face of conventional thought....
  • edited April 2022
    As a PCGS submitter I am not disputing the threads title but….

    My view is how one picks coins is a factor too.  While the subject here is too complex IMV have simple answers my CAC coins have done well whether PCGS or NGC.  For most part I know how to grade and view coins. Somebody who doesn’t can miss and then cast blame on a TPG.  There are stickered coins have examined that are higher and lower end in both TPG holders as A or B coins get his sticker.  For assurance on toned coins certainly want JA opinion / sticker (eliminate AT / NT doubt).  If you believe the title and think some simple generalization will suffice ask the folks at NGC - I would be interested to hear what they say.  For me it’s about margin - if I can make good margin on TPG coin who’s holder of the 2…….  If market won’t pay as much for NGC  but I can get an attractive NGC as nice for less it’s a win for me, I have less in it and make my margin vs something I had to pay gazoo money more for.  Due to deals I have been offered or won have about an equal number of both TPG in my inventory of both although NGC more heavily weighted towards world.  One way I evaluate the TPG issue just examine bluesheet bid for that particular coin / grade.

    Without a doubt I would choose the first (PCGS) coin of Bills example.  It has much nicer luster and detail than the NGC CAC. Now I am not saying there is an not another NGC out there as nice as the PCGS in that grade. Picking nice coins is key.

    Above all that the buzz around the bourse for years is PCGS is preferred by the market.  I can’t disagree with that.

  • BillJones said:

    I will post these pictures and let people comment. Both of these Classic Head $5 gold coins are graded AU-58.

    This one is in an Old Green Label (OGL) PCGS AU-58 holder. It has no CAC sticker, but I'm guessing that it has never been submitted. I bought it in an auction run by one of the big houses 5 and a half years ago.



    This one is NGC AU-58 CAC graded.




    Which one do you like better?

    I wish that you used photos of the same die marriage/date (as unrealistic as it may sound) in which to compare. But I have to also add that photos taken differently add to the problem of comparing too.
  • My bias against NGC has more to do with their awful white prongs vs their grading standards.
  • 1. I have an OCD streak and hate looking at my NGC-holdered coins sprinkled among my PCGS ones. It is a silly reason to focus on PCGS but I know there are others that are like-minded.
    2. The power of the PCCGS registry is underestimated by most. It has an outsize effect on the market, and for many series is the engine that drives the bidding and the prices. Think of how many major collectors have participated in the PCGS registry - TDN, Hansen, Blay, Pogue, Simpson, High Desert, Duckor, Forsythe, etc.
  • Legend said:

    NGC has too many bad coins in their holders period and seem to grade more commercially.

    PCGS has done an outstanding job of marketing for their product. There is no question PCGS CAC coins bring the most money.

    Also, the PCGS registry is far stronger and bigger.

    Please, anybody, what does "seem to grade more commercially" mean, and what is the criteria for determining if a piece has been graded (or seems to be graded) more commercially? Do collectors/dealers recognize this phrase, and how is it applied in evaluating the coin, with or without CAC?

    Whatever this phrase means, does it apply to NGC and PCGS equally?

    Is this phrase just marketing gobbledygobbeldness?

  • Who makes the most noise?
  • I just look at the coin. Occasionally the green bean does cross vision as I'm looking at a coin. Each coin on its own for me. Probably didn't answer your question, sorry.
  • edited March 2022
    The simple answer is that PCGS coins are not considered better by collectors just the lemmings. Yes in some areas PCGS coins do sell for more in the market, but that is not really because they are "better" coins in every case (they are sometimes) but simply because there are still some of the old Hall regime dealers that feverishly push PCGS to their customers due to their PCGS only stance.




    Is this phrase just marketing gobbledygobbeldness?



    Bingo!! yes Laura's comments are nothing but bluster and misinformation. Lets fact check, Laura said "Also, the PCGS registry is far stronger and bigger" sorry that is false. The PCGS registry shows just over 146K sets as of this moment, see my page copy.



    The NGC registry has just over 160K sets in the US section alone not including all the world sets, a segment of the market that NGC dominates.


    It is this type of bluster and spreading of false information by dealers and some collectors that have led the market to believe that there is real difference when in fact there is very little difference. However, it is true that
    the PCGS registry has and does host some top notch collections and big name collectors, that has had an influence on some collectors to be sure as a great many of the great coins originally graded and holdered by NGC have been crossed for registry reasons alone.

    And I cannot deny that ascetics do play a part in the decision to buy or not or buy then cross for some collectors. The NGC holder could be better and that is an area that NGC could (and should imo) spend some time to address.

    My opinion, if NGC spent the time and money to address what some collectors want in the way of holder design it would be easy for NGC to bury PCGS in the future.

    Edited to add: One other thing, this push was a bigger issue when PCGS was a publicly traded company, dealers and collectors had real skin in the game then and a big incentive to push for a bigger disparity.
  • Coinbuf said:

    The simple answer is that PCGS coins are not considered better by collectors just the lemmings. Yes in some areas PCGS coins do sell for more in the market, but that is not really because they are "better" coins in every case (they are sometimes) but simply because there are still some of the old Hall regime dealers that feverishly push PCGS to their customers due to their PCGS only stance.


    Is this phrase just marketing gobbledygobbeldness?



    Bingo!! yes Laura's comments are nothing but bluster and misinformation. Lets fact check, Laura said "Also, the PCGS registry is far stronger and bigger" sorry that is false. The PCGS registry shows just over 146K sets as of this moment, see my page copy.



    The NGC registry has just over 160K sets in the US section alone not including all the world sets, a segment of the market that NGC dominates.


    It is this type of bluster and spreading of false information by dealers and some collectors that have led the market to believe that there is real difference when in fact there is very little difference. However, it is true that
    the PCGS registry has and does host some top notch collections and big name collectors, that has had an influence on some collectors to be sure as a great many of the great coins originally graded and holdered by NGC have been crossed for registry reasons alone.

    And I cannot deny that ascetics do play a part in the decision to buy or not or buy then cross for some collectors. The NGC holder could be better and that is an area that NGC could (and should imo) spend some time to address.

    My opinion, if NGC spent the time and money to address what some collectors want in the way of holder design it would be easy for NGC to bury PCGS in the future.

    Edited to add: One other thing, this push was a bigger issue when PCGS was a publicly traded company, dealers and collectors had real skin in the game then and a big incentive to push for a bigger disparity.

    I sincerely appreciate the reply, and my thoughts are parallel in direction, with only a slight bend.

    I suspected the same concerning the phrase (and admit I still don't know what it means).

    There is logic in your reply, and that is important. If I was to add to the post, it would be that I recall a time not long ago when PCGS had a reputation of exercising a tendency to be generous with grading, as the norm.

    So.....

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