Also, just because a coin has a green CAC sticker, it does not mean that it will upgrade.
I wonder how much subconscious effect it has on the graders though, when a CAC coin comes in for reconsideration or regrade. I'd bet it at least gives a bit more pause to some, or adds some gravity to the reconsideration. Maybe. Just a thought.
I agree- always go for the sticker before sending back for reconsideration or regrade.
I disagree. If ultimately, you’re planning on trying for an upgrade, you might as well do that, before submitting the coin to CAC. I’m not convinced that submitting a stickered coin for upgrade increases your chances for a higher grade. There are likely some occasions where it would make sense to try CAC first, but certainly, nowhere close to “always”.
Also, just because a coin has a green CAC sticker, it does not mean that it will upgrade.
I wonder how much subconscious effect it has on the graders though, when a CAC coin comes in for reconsideration or regrade. I'd bet it at least gives a bit more pause to some, or adds some gravity to the reconsideration. Maybe. Just a thought.
I agree- always go for the sticker before sending back for reconsideration or regrade.
I disagree. If ultimately, you’re planning on trying for an upgrade, you might as well do that, before submitting the coin to CAC. I’m not convinced that submitting a stickered coin for upgrade increases your chances for a higher grade. There are likely some occasions where it would make sense to try CAC first, but certainly, nowhere close to “always”.
I agree with Mark, it can work both ways. At least for me it has and sometimes I have a tough time deciding which to do first?
I think some people have the PCGS regrade process bass-ackward. When you send in a coin for a regrade none of the graders see the holder. It's already been cracked out and flipped-up for grader viewing. Accordingly, there is no stickering indication. QED: don't waste your money.
When a stickered coin comes through for cross-over (which precludes an upgrade) it likely does have some subliminal effect, most likely in bolstering "B" coins. QED: always sticker first.
Reconsideration - I think this has become less of an issue over the past five years as the somewhat idiosyncratic market pressure on rattlers and OGHs as being potentially under-graded has subsided. I'm sure I've left some considerations out. Any benefit obtained through designation change and upgrading can be obtained through regrade without paying the "insurance" premium for the newly calculated value.
I think some people have the PCGS regrade process bass-ackward. When you send in a coin for a regrade none of the graders see the holder. It's already been cracked out and flipped-up for grader viewing. Accordingly, there is no stickering indication. QED: don't waste your money.
When a stickered coin comes through for cross-over (which precludes an upgrade) it likely does have some subliminal effect, most likely in bolstering "B" coins. QED: always sticker first.
Reconsideration - I think this has become less of an issue over the past five years as the somewhat idiosyncratic market pressure on rattlers and OGHs as being potentially under-graded has subsided. I'm sure I've left some considerations out. Any benefit obtained through designation change and upgrading can be obtained through regrade without paying the "insurance" premium for the newly calculated value.
When sending in for regrade, do the graders see or know the existing grade for the coin? Or is it hidden from them to prevent unintentional bias?
A knowledgable source has told me (or perhaps it was even in a pcgs video about the grading process) that on regrade the initial graders grade the coin raw with no prior knowledge of the previous grade but then the finalizer sees the new grades and the original grade. This is why dealers still are notorious for cracking out coins. If the coin was fully given an anonymous look as if it was a raw submission there would be zero reason to ever crack out a coin.
I feel the pain of the OP. I've seen at least 20 of the coins I've sold, all duplicates, in the past 6 or 7 years, for sale later at a higher grade (and I was trying hard to not sell coins I thought were undergraded). At least 4 or 5 of those coins went to new pop 1/0s. Hansen bought them too and was passing me in registry sets using my own duplicates.
A knowledgable source has told me (or perhaps it was even in a pcgs video about the grading process) that on regrade the initial graders grade the coin raw with no prior knowledge of the previous grade but then the finalizer sees the new grades and the original grade. This is why dealers still are notorious for cracking out coins. If the coin was fully given an anonymous look as if it was a raw submission there would be zero reason to ever crack out a coin.
I feel the pain of the OP. I've seen at least 20 of the coins I've sold, all duplicates, in the past 6 or 7 years, for sale later at a higher grade (and I was trying hard to not sell coins I thought were undergraded). At least 4 or 5 of those coins went to new pop 1/0s. Hansen bought them too and was passing me in registry sets using my own duplicates.
Actually, even if “the coin was fully given an anonymous look as if it was a raw submission” there would still be at least one reason to crack it out, And that would be so that the graders wouldn’t have to view the coin through the holder and therefore possibly err on the side of caution in making their assessment,
I've never cracked a coin out. Always been to scared. My luck, I would damage the coin somehow. @MarkFeld , would you mind telling me your occupation in the industry? Just curious. Trying to learn who is who. You seem extremely knowledgeable. I'm fairly new to collecting and not a dealer or anything. Just a collector.
I've never cracked a coin out. Always been to scared. My luck, I would damage the coin somehow. @MarkFeld , would you mind telling me your occupation in the industry? Just curious. Trying to learn who is who. You seem extremely knowledgeable. I'm fairly new to collecting and not a dealer or anything. Just a collector.
John, I’d be happy to.
I’ve been in the industry on a full time basis, since accepting a job with Steve Ivy in 1979. I did some sales and worked in the auction department there. I subsequently worked in the auction department of Heritage, after Steve Ivy and Jim Halperin joined forces.
I was a buyer for the founder of PCGS - David Hall - in the mid-80’s.
After that, I worked with Mark Salzberg, before he joined NGC.
Next, I was a full time grader at NGC from 1991-1998.
I worked for Pinnacle Rarities for several years.
I had my own rare coin business - a sole proprietorship - for several years and then re-joined Heritage, where I’ve been since 2013. I have several responsibilities at Heritage, which I might have included, if this post weren’t already so long.😉
Wow. That's an impressive resume. Thank you. I was just 7 years old in 1979.
Thank you. I’m old.😉
Well, with age comes experience and wisdom. I'm old enough to know that now. I appreciate your input and may look to you for future advice if that's OK
Wow. That's an impressive resume. Thank you. I was just 7 years old in 1979.
Thank you. I’m old.😉
Well, with age comes experience and wisdom. I'm old enough to know that now. I appreciate your input and may look to you for future advice if that's OK
Also, just because a coin has a green CAC sticker, it does not mean that it will upgrade.
I wonder how much subconscious effect it has on the graders though, when a CAC coin comes in for reconsideration or regrade. I'd bet it at least gives a bit more pause to some, or adds some gravity to the reconsideration. Maybe. Just a thought.
I agree- always go for the sticker before sending back for reconsideration or regrade.
I disagree. If ultimately, you’re planning on trying for an upgrade, you might as well do that, before submitting the coin to CAC. I’m not convinced that submitting a stickered coin for upgrade increases your chances for a higher grade. There are likely some occasions where it would make sense to try CAC first, but certainly, nowhere close to “always”.
Because you are an ex-TPG grader and thus a true grading expert, can you explain how much the grease streak on this coin (in the original post) should influence the grade? I have sold numerous other coins that had those streaks but the effect on the TPG grades seemed to wildly vary.
Comments
I disagree. If ultimately, you’re planning on trying for an upgrade, you might as well do that, before submitting the coin to CAC. I’m not convinced that submitting a stickered coin for upgrade increases your chances for a higher grade. There are likely some occasions where it would make sense to try CAC first, but certainly, nowhere close to “always”.
When a stickered coin comes through for cross-over (which precludes an upgrade) it likely does have some subliminal effect, most likely in bolstering "B" coins. QED: always sticker first.
Reconsideration - I think this has become less of an issue over the past five years as the somewhat idiosyncratic market pressure on rattlers and OGHs as being potentially under-graded has subsided. I'm sure I've left some considerations out. Any benefit obtained through designation change and upgrading can be obtained through regrade without paying the "insurance" premium for the newly calculated value.
I feel the pain of the OP. I've seen at least 20 of the coins I've sold, all duplicates, in the past 6 or 7 years, for sale later at a higher grade (and I was trying hard to not sell coins I thought were undergraded). At least 4 or 5 of those coins went to new pop 1/0s. Hansen bought them too and was passing me in registry sets using my own duplicates.
@MarkFeld , would you mind telling me your occupation in the industry? Just curious. Trying to learn who is who. You seem extremely knowledgeable. I'm fairly new to collecting and not a dealer or anything. Just a collector.
I’ve been in the industry on a full time basis, since accepting a job with Steve Ivy in 1979. I did some sales and worked in the auction department there. I subsequently worked in the auction department of Heritage, after Steve Ivy and Jim Halperin joined forces.
I was a buyer for the founder of PCGS - David Hall - in the mid-80’s.
After that, I worked with Mark Salzberg, before he joined NGC.
Next, I was a full time grader at NGC from 1991-1998.
I worked for Pinnacle Rarities for several years.
I had my own rare coin business - a sole proprietorship - for several years and then re-joined Heritage, where I’ve been since 2013. I have several responsibilities at Heritage, which I might have included, if this post weren’t already so long.😉
Because you are an ex-TPG grader and thus a true grading expert, can you explain how much the grease streak on this coin (in the original post) should influence the grade? I have sold numerous other coins that had those streaks but the effect on the TPG grades seemed to wildly vary.