Should Whitman be seeking an alternative to Baltimore? — Welcome to the CAC Educational Forum

Should Whitman be seeking an alternative to Baltimore?

edited May 2022 in Industry
The 3x yearly Whitman Baltimore coin & collectible show has been splendid for decades. BUT Baltimore, and in particular the
show site, has become increasingly violent in gun crime & “homelessness “( ie vagrancy).
Just this weekend there were multiple shootings in the Inner Harbor & both the Balto police chief & mayor are declaring its gun violence “ a plague” .
It is just a matter of short time before
Whitman attendees get robbed or shot near the convention center and “ smash ‘n grab”
expensive thefts occur in the show itself. Time to locate another venue - but where? Certainly not Philadelphia. And that’s the problem.
So far, unless I’m mistaken, the New England area seems to be relatively safe. And just as accessible as Baltimore.
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Comments

  • I would like to nominate Orlando, because I can drive there!
  • Sure, San Francisco or Phoenix.
  • Leave it in Balt. Budget for an appropriate level of hard targeting, and add some wampum for local LEO at an appropriate level, not a cheapo one armed body per shift, and add some wampum for escort service to dealers to and from hotels, and arrange for concierge service for parking for attendees. It would be a major improvement to up the egress entry/exit requirements, above the level of previous Shows. This should be the norm at any major Show. Any major Show trying to dumb budget for security and hard targeting anywhere in the country in the present atmosphere is very bad planning, especially when the Show involves expensive collection items and heavy cash transactions Orlando would be fine, but does not change the hard targeting needed. New England...I don't know what location is considered, but I do know criminals can drive also.

    Not to mention, on-site EMS availability during Show hours, but that just happens to be a personal issue for me.

    That's about all I've got. Or....stay home?
  • Washington, D.C. ?
  • DMV area from 80-2000 was a very nice and preferred venue, but changed dramatically after that. Costs took a BIG jump, and public transportation fell down on the job and broke all 4 legs. These days, adequate facilities are not going to be improved more than the faux facelifts that have been done over and over and over. PG County has a shot at bringing it all back, especially if the FBI decides that is the best new home area. Howard County/Columbia just never got to a point to have a decent sized Convention Center. DC crime issues are mirroring Balt., and are only getting worse. There are reasons, but this is not the place to discuss why.

    Fairfax and Arlington both shot themselves in the foot in the premier convention center market, and focused overboard on Fortune 500 kissyface huggy bear real estate deals, and elite retail spacing. There is not a big enough band-aid to stop that bleeding, now.
  • Boston, Providence, Alexandria VA ( adjacent to DC), Pittsburgh, Hartford ? Any major city with good airline / rail / driving access that hasn’t had violent crime zoom. The Whitman host should be concerned with local crime - the criminals “ who can drive” are not the major concern as “follow-homes” are strictly the concern of individual dealers/ collectors who should practice safe procedures. We are talking street crime by thugs, who use
    violence rather than stealth.
  • You may have misinterpreted my criminal driving comment...criminals can drive to the venues are indeed a major concern, which reinforces the need for hard targeting. Do criminals follow persons home? I would think so, especially after they have familiarized themselves with the target, by observing/studying at the Show. That strict concern limitation you caveat, shifting responsibility to the dealers/collectors for local street thugs is the exact reason for hard targeting a Show, including personal safety instruction and escort service when appropriate. Street crime violence is the exact reason to up the hard targeting game.

    I don't think you meant Alexandria. Maybe you meant Loudon or Prince William County. That will not happen as a convention center possibility until the Commanders make a deal that is agreed to, and that is years away.

    Alexandria? I think you may be referring to the National Center. Crime is no great improvement there, and is difficult at best and very annoying in general to traverse. It is a crime target area and has been for years, and casinos and flashy hotels have not kept criminals away, and the area is very expensive. I would suggest Annapolis before any of the VA. possibilities.

    But, I am not known for being correct in my opinions. So......
  • Sure, San Francisco or Phoenix.

    I'm all for Phoenix. ;) SF has a lot of vagrancy and crime issues, Phoenix is unfortunately catching up to other big citys but far safer than many still. And Phoenix has been increasing the public transit options, but admittedly still has a long way to go in that regard.
  • @john What about Reston, VA? Near airport, nice suburban area, lots of hotels. Don't know about the venue possibilities. Does it have to be a convention center?
  • Keep it away from my small town! We don't need the criminals driving here. 🤫
  • Catbert said:

    @john What about Reston, VA? Near airport, nice suburban area, lots of hotels. Don't know about the venue possibilities. Does it have to be a convention center?

    Good Morning on this day of Remembrance.

    I just read your question. The facility that could best be described as a Conference Center in Reston is the Bechtel Center (yes, that Bechtel), but is rather small for a venue on the scale of a major numismatic Show. There was an intent to expand it, until the bottom fell out of the Nuclear Power Plant market.

    There is a supposed Reston Conference facility, but by name only. since it is in D.C. and like most of the smaller facilities are Fed Agency contracted meeting locations.

    Years and years ago, the Reston area decided to be a bedroom suburb, emulating Montgomery County in MD., and that it is. There is not enough support attractions to entice visitors without travelling to D.C., and the community does not have an enthusiastic attitude to have a national level facility.
    Travel is not all that convenient and the taxi ride from the Airport, well....but the Reston community likes it that way, and benefits from the McMansion status and above average public schools. It is just not the right mix.

    Probably the ideal location would be off Rt. 15 in Loudon County a few miles past the Frederick Md. Potomac crossing, but 30 years ago Disney tried to shoot for that, and the proverbial deer with a rifle ended that hunt. There is HEAVY old money in that part of Loudon County/Middleburg area. HEAVY money, so, good luck trying to get that permit.
  • WilliamJ said:

    Keep it away from my small town! We don't need the criminals driving here. 🤫

    But, criminal walkers are OK, then. I love logic.
    Don't hit me. I am old.
  • I have long suggested they cut it down to 2 shows a year. The problem is, this is not a big show in the real world. Most major convention centers don't want it. And then there is the tax issue. Oops forgot the ease of getting there. The main line of the Amtrak goes right thru Baltimore. That's a ton of people on the East Coast.

    Why not Boston? Not so easy to get too and its expensive. You don't want this show in any lace other then a major convention hall.

    Crime really is that bad there. We use armed cops to take our coins home. We have a rule never to leave carrying anything.
  • edited May 2022
    The OP is from California, where flash mobs blitz into high-fashion malls with sledgehammers to do their shopping.
    Whereas, here on the East Coast...... (never mind)

    @Legend knows her turf and takes the necessary precautions.
    We both remember Long Beach nights in the 80's falling asleep to the murmurings of SWAT helicopters

    Crime simply is. Inner cities will not get better.
    The local police and show security have always done a great job.
    The Baltimore show is in Baltimore because its location accessibility is superior to anywhere else in the Northeast.
    All else is situational awareness.
  • I vote for greater Boston area.  How about Southern NH?  No sales tax.
  • The important points in choosing a Whitman show venue is : major airport access, centered in a region that is financially prosperous and within driving distance of collectors & dealers, a competent police dept, comparatively
    safe city w controllable crime, reasonably priced hotels in immed vicinity, possibly good rail access, decent array of restaurants. Boston has been the site of an ANA perhaps 2 decades ago. There are still coin shows in & around Boston ( I think). I’m unaware of significant street crime in Boston , at least insofar as the media is concerned. I dreaming ?
  • edited June 2022
    People in Boston have a 1 out of 153 chance of becoming a victim of crime, compared to a 1 in 296 in the state of Massachusetts.


    https://covesmart.com/blog/boston-crime-rate-is-boston-a-safe-city/#:~:text=People%20in%20Boston%20have%20a,is%20often%20dangerous%20and%20violent.
  • edited June 2022
  • edited June 2022
    Any table or floor dealer east of the Mississippi, north of the Carolinas and south of Canada would say you nay. Once Philly is out, and even if in, Baltimore is going to pull the most traffic from that entire expanse. You're from the West Coast and, yes, you are surely dreaming about Boston without having watched collector and show patterns evolve on a year-by-year basis from our perspective. You are on a fool's errand. Ask Tony Terranova and he'll set you straight. :#

  • I like to post numismatic “ food for thought” as strictly posting CAC comments can be boring. It is sad indeed
    that we cannot find a major east coast destination for numismatic get-togethers that are relatively free from street crime and vagrancy. Indeed, thruout the country. How times have changed.
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