The other thing to remember is that many of the Rattlers and Fatty's still floating around out there have already failed at CAC. I have seen MANY over-graded coins in those holders. It is not an automatic under-grade, just because of those holders.
I have been preaching that PCGS coins graded in the last 2 years are the new Rattlers. Go look at my Gold CAC coin thread.
My strong feeling is that JA was too hard on this coin as the coin looks pretty clean in hand as opposed to the picture posted, but I want to keep my rattler. I am no expert on Morgan’s just a gut feeling.
Of the millions of coins John has seen, and your "gut" is going to trump that?
Well you are right I am a novice compared to his knowledge. Than how are people getting higher grades from PCGS after CAC didn’t give gold and getting the green sticker after resubmitting at the next level to CAC. I am reading many people are saying they didn’t get gold after submitting say a MS 63 coin got green, resubmitted to PCGS and got 64, resent to CAC and got green at 64, how is this possible? As great as JA and his team are they undergrade a certain percentage of coins. I think mine is one of these. I wish I could crack out of holder this coin but want my rattler
My strong feeling is that JA was too hard on this coin as the coin looks pretty clean in hand as opposed to the picture posted, but I want to keep my rattler. I am no expert on Morgan’s just a gut feeling.
Of the millions of coins John has seen, and your "gut" is going to trump that?
Well you are right I am a novice compared to his knowledge. Than how are people getting higher grades from PCGS after CAC didn’t give gold and getting the green sticker after resubmitting at the next level to CAC. I am reading many people are saying they didn’t get gold after submitting say a MS 63 coin got green, resubmitted to PCGS and got 64, resent to CAC and got green at 64, how is this possible? As great as JA and his team are they undergrade a certain percentage of coins. I think mine is one of these. I wish I could crack out of holder this coin but want my rattler the only thing I can think of is gold needs to be reall close to 2 grades up or really an A not a B in the next grade
Let's try one last time here. To further your education.
1- How much did you pay for the Rattler?
2- How much did you pay CAC including shipping both ways?
3- How much will you pay PCGS to regrade, including shipping both ways?
4- How much will it cost to send back to CAC, including shipping both ways?
5- If you did in fact talk to John, he called it a low end 65 at best, which means no sticker, but even if it did, this is a $200 coin at best.
6- Don't cut off your nose to spite................
Appreciate your feedback but it’s not about the money only the satisfaction of a gold sticker or green at the next level. I need to prove something to myself. But you never responded to my points about other people getting green stickers at the next level from CAC. Why not?
Here is a coin I bought off eBay around a year ago. This is what a 64 Morgan that gets a gold bean looks like. Very clean cheek, nose, cin and brow, ear that is not flat, and a reverse that is a 66.
Here is a coin I bought off eBay around a year ago. This is what a 64 Morgan that gets a gold bean looks like. Very clean cheek, nose, cin and brow, ear that is not flat, and a reverse that is a 66.
I agree it’s significantly cleaner, but the luster seems pretty dull or hazy, unless it’s looking much better in hand, but photo says deadish luster. Also I have never heard of the reverse influencing the overall grade except to lower it, according to Mark Feld. That coin I wouldn’t buy.
Here is a coin I bought off eBay around a year ago. This is what a 64 Morgan that gets a gold bean looks like. Very clean cheek, nose, chin and brow, ear that is not flat, and a reverse that is a 66.
Which is a reality I, and others who identify gold bean coins, greatly appreciate.
Here is a coin I bought off eBay around a year ago. This is what a 64 Morgan that gets a gold bean looks like. Very clean cheek, nose, chin and brow, ear that is not flat, and a reverse that is a 66.
Which is a reality I, and others who identify gold bean coins, greatly appreciate.
I am glad you like it, just not my taste. I only buy fully lustrous Morgan’s not dull looking coins. .
Here is a coin I bought off eBay around a year ago. This is what a 64 Morgan that gets a gold bean looks like. Very clean cheek, nose, cin and brow, ear that is not flat, and a reverse that is a 66.
I agree it’s significantly cleaner, but the luster seems pretty dull or hazy, unless it’s looking much better in hand, but photo says deadish luster. Also I have never heard of the reverse influencing the overall grade except to lower it, according to Mark Feld. That coin I wouldn’t buy.
I wouldn’t say that the reverse “never” influences the grade, except to lower it. But I will say that would be a very/extremely rare occurrence. I look at a lot of coins and can’t even remember the last time when it appeared that the reverse had impacted the grade in a positive fashion.
Edited to add: Please note that I’m speaking of mint state and Proof coins, not circulated ones.
Looking at the photo of Silence of the Clam’s 1879-S $1 in MS-64 I cannot even begin to evaluate the amount of luster present or not present on this coin. I cannot argue for or against the superior quality of this coin for the assigned grade but it is extremely rare that I would have an argument against CAC assigning a gold sticker on a coin.
Don't feel bad, I posted about 5 Gold Cac Morgan's that in hand are extremely awesome Morgan's, with basically no comments. Maybe people do not realize Cac does not just pass out Gold Stickers especially on Morgan Dollars. Pictures never tell the true story; you have to hold the coin in hand to understand why it received the coveted gold Cac pass. Congratulations!
Don't feel bad, I posted about 5 Gold Cac Morgan's that in hand are extremely awesome Morgan's, with basically no comments. Maybe people do not realize Cac does not just pass out Gold Stickers especially on Morgan Dollars. Pictures never tell the true story; you have to hold the coin in hand to understand why it received the coveted gold Cac pass. Congratulations!
It is a wonderful coin, PL surfaces and super luster. Also made these two the year before.
Beautiful Ngc old fatty Morgan's, I am working on my photos with a light box I purchased. Then I plan on sharing a few more. Congrats on the Gold Cac Morgan's! Not an easy achievement.
I do personally feel the reverse on proof coins helps with cameo and deep cameo. Mint state coins will sometimes receive the star designation from a nicely toned reverse. I suspect CAC also considers the reverse similarly. I do agree the obverse (most importantly) needs to be sufficient to make the grade achievable.
Don't feel bad, I posted about 5 Gold Cac Morgan's that in hand are extremely awesome Morgan's, with basically no comments. Maybe people do not realize Cac does not just pass out Gold Stickers especially on Morgan Dollars. Pictures never tell the true story; you have to hold the coin in hand to understand why it received the coveted gold Cac pass. Congratulations!
Everything you have said is true. But remember CAC grading is not about the most eye appealing coins. A gold sticker means it’s solid or probably high for the next grade factoring all the technical with the aesthetic aspects. Not that it is necessarily beautiful looking. TPG weighs the eye appeal factor more heavily than CAC.
Everything you have said is true. But remember CAC grading is not about the most eye appealing coins. A gold sticker means it’s solid or probably high for the next grade factoring all the technical with the aesthetic aspects. Not that it is necessarily beautiful looking. TPG weighs the eye appeal factor more heavily than CAC.
LOL, and how did you arrive at this conclusion? You have been collecting/submitting for how long? (You just posted your first ever submission!)
Comments
I have been preaching that PCGS coins graded in the last 2 years are the new Rattlers. Go look at my Gold CAC coin thread.
1- How much did you pay for the Rattler?
2- How much did you pay CAC including shipping both ways?
3- How much will you pay PCGS to regrade, including shipping both ways?
4- How much will it cost to send back to CAC, including shipping both ways?
5- If you did in fact talk to John, he called it a low end 65 at best, which means no sticker, but even if it did, this is a $200 coin at best.
6- Don't cut off your nose to spite................
Good luck on your quest
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I suspect CAC also considers the reverse similarly.
I do agree the obverse (most importantly) needs to be sufficient to make the grade achievable.
LOL, and how did you arrive at this conclusion? You have been collecting/submitting for how long? (You just posted your first ever submission!)