May be wrong but I believe I am the Walker collector at Parsippany who Oreville is referring to. The Jack Lee 1921 is a blazer and love that it is still in that old holder.
FYI, thanks to the feedback here and some specific feedback from @SeatedNut I've updated Seated dollars. The new prices should appear on the CAC site in a few hours. They are live on the Greysheet.com site already.
FYI, thanks to the feedback here and some specific feedback from @SeatedNut I've updated Seated dollars. The new prices should appear on the CAC site in a few hours. They are live on the Greysheet.com site already.
Happy and Healthy New Year everyone! John
Are these updates live yet? I did not see any updates to the 1840 on the CAC site if so.
JF, I’m continuously hearing from dealers who have marked up their coins recently that the CAC price guide is “below market” and “not current.” I am not taking a position on such a broad sweeping statement, but it would help to know whether you believe the market for CAC coins has accelerated past the guide generally. In one instance I’m not seeing any auction prices justifying an elevated asking price for a seated liberty half dollar (about $1500) where the CAC guide price is currently $1150. Thoughts appreciated. Happy New Year!
FYI, thanks to the feedback here and some specific feedback from @SeatedNut I've updated Seated dollars. The new prices should appear on the CAC site in a few hours. They are live on the Greysheet.com site already.
Happy and Healthy New Year everyone! John
Are these updates live yet? I did not see any updates to the 1840 on the CAC site if so.
JF, I’m continuously hearing from dealers who have marked up their coins recently that the CAC price guide is “below market” and “not current.” I am not taking a position on such a broad sweeping statement, but it would help to know whether you believe the market for CAC coins has accelerated past the guide generally. In one instance I’m not seeing any auction prices justifying an elevated asking price for a seated liberty half dollar (about $1500) where the CAC guide price is currently $1150. Thoughts appreciated. Happy New Year!
I think in a rising market (as we are currently experiencing) where demand generally exceeds supply, you will find that the price guide is going to be low. I feel it would be irresponsible of CDN to try and exceed dealer expectations of the values they feel they can get for coins. Whatever we list for pricing I suspect some dealers will always quote more. We do our best to value coins based on recent transactions and not get caught up in the excitement. We encourage buyers to be very careful when paying new market highs for coins. It can be a slippery slope.
JF said: ” We encourage buyers to be very careful when paying new market highs for coins. It can be a slippery slope.”
Well stated but it can work the opposite way for a collector. Sometimes it is best to pay above the market highs to buy the one or two desired coins for your set.
i remember when I had a chance to pay the new market high of $25,000 for a 1943 bronze cent at the FUN show in 1999, I declined because I was afraid of a slippery slope. I stayed in fear of that slippery slope and now the same coin costs hundreds of thousands!
John, I’m aware that for business reasons GC, with only a few exceptions, does not provide automatic feeds of its prices of sold lots to PCGS and NGC Auction Prices Realized. This way collectors and dealers have to go to the GC website to get that data, which makes sense for GC and it’s consignors, since that could encourage bidding on current and upcoming lots shown in the right hand column of their prices realized results.
1. Since the GC auction prices realized is free public information, do you use GC sold prices to determine pricing in your guides, and if not, is it because of the vast manpower/time that would be needed, or is it for another reason?
2. Assuming that as a generalization you do not use their prices realized, do you take GC sold prices into account if it’s specifically brought to your attention, like you have for some coins pointed out to you on this forum?
3. Assuming the answer to #2 is yes, when you get a chance, please take a look at the 1904 Indian Head Cent PCGS MS66RD with a CAC I bought tonight (by the way, unlike most other collectors, I never refer to my high bid for a lot as “winning” a coin. Winning is what happens if my raffle or lottery number is drawn, or if I win at a gambling game of chance or a horse race. What happens in an auction when I’m the high bidder is that I BOUGHT the coin at a price I was willing to pay!).
4. Will that price I paid for that coin be used to adjust the current pricing for that coin, or will it be considered an “outlier”?
Thanks so VERY much for your time, expertise, and educational insights!
John, I’m aware that for business reasons GC, with only a few exceptions, does not provide automatic feeds of its prices of sold lots to PCGS and NGC Auction Prices Realized. This way collectors and dealers have to go to the GC website to get that data, which makes sense for GC and it’s consignors, since that could encourage bidding on current and upcoming lots shown in the right hand column of their prices realized results.
1. Since the GC auction prices realized is free public information, do you use GC sold prices to determine pricing in your guides, and if not, is it because of the vast manpower/time that would be needed, or is it for another reason?
2. Assuming that as a generalization you do not use their prices realized, do you take GC sold prices into account if it’s specifically brought to your attention, like you have for some coins pointed out to you on this forum?
3. Assuming the answer to #2 is yes, when you get a chance, please take a look at the 1904 Indian Head Cent PCGS MS66RD with a CAC I bought tonight (by the way, unlike most other collectors, I never refer to my high bid for a lot as “winning” a coin. Winning is what happens if my raffle or lottery number is drawn, or if I win at a gambling game of chance or a horse race. What happens in an auction when I’m the high bidder is that I BOUGHT the coin at a price I was willing to pay!).
4. Will that price I paid for that coin be used to adjust the current pricing for that coin, or will it be considered an “outlier”?
Thanks so VERY much for your time, expertise, and educational insights!
Steve
1. No. We don't for several reasons. Time is a huge factor but transparency is another. We really want people to see how pricing is derived so, without being able to show the auction data to users (dealers on CDN Exchange, or subscribers on the web site) people won't understand why prices moved.
4. Based on the market comps above, I do consider your purchase an outlier. The Nov 28 sale at GC best reflects the retail market at $2081, including buyers fee. We have CPG at $2200 so I think that purchase was within our market tolerance.
One last comment on this... our prices at CDN are unusual in that they are formulated from "wholesale up," not "retail down". In other words, we derive our pricing based on what we feel the wholesale value is for a coin. In this case, we think wholesale for a 1904 Indian cent PCGS/CAC MS66 RD is $1700. Collector pricing is set around 25% premium over this amount.
All pricing is subjective and all coins need to be evaluated by the buyer for his/her tolerance and willingness to stretch, etc.
John - As always, thanks for the clarification and information. Have a good week, and a Happy and HEALTHY New year!
Thank you for asking about GC, it has been a thorn in my CDN pricing since I always have to check with GC in addition to Greysheet to get the most current pricing. It is what it is. Thanks again
Yes, as many of us know, to get more accurate current auction data, one has to take the time to look separately at the GC Coin Auction Archive in addition to our other sources.
Trying to wrap my brain around these two recent auction results. At 2.5x to 3x over current CAC guide I can't see a significant pricing guide update happening that captures this. Same scenario with circulated grades pushing into MS pricing territory.
Comments
How do you post a comment in the same comment when a photo is posted?
Happy and Healthy New Year everyone!
John
” We encourage buyers to be very careful when paying new market highs for coins. It can be a slippery slope.”
Well stated but it can work the opposite way for a collector. Sometimes it is best to pay above the market highs to buy the one or two desired coins for your set.
1. Since the GC auction prices realized is free public information, do you use GC sold prices to determine pricing in your guides, and if not, is it because of the vast manpower/time that would be needed, or is it for another reason?
2. Assuming that as a generalization you do not use their prices realized, do you take GC sold prices into account if it’s specifically brought to your attention, like you have for some coins pointed out to you on this forum?
3. Assuming the answer to #2 is yes, when you get a chance, please take a look at the 1904 Indian Head Cent PCGS MS66RD with a CAC I bought tonight (by the way, unlike most other collectors, I never refer to my high bid for a lot as “winning” a coin. Winning is what happens if my raffle or lottery number is drawn, or if I win at a gambling game of chance or a horse race. What happens in an auction when I’m the high bidder is that I BOUGHT the coin at a price I was willing to pay!).
4. Will that price I paid for that coin be used to adjust the current pricing for that coin, or will it be considered an “outlier”?
Steve
2. Sometimes. It's situational.
3. I just looked it up. Adding links to make this easier for others to follow (https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1093190/1904-Indian-Cent-PCGS-MS-66-RD-CAC)
It appears that you were the high bidder on the lot at $3125 which compares to several comps. DLRC sold a PCGS/CAC MS66+ for $2400 (https://www.davidlawrence.com/product/2267035/) and GC sold another PCGS/CAC MS66 for $2081 on Nov. 28, 2021 (https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1079838/1904-Indian-Cent-PCGS-MS-66-RD-CAC).
4. Based on the market comps above, I do consider your purchase an outlier. The Nov 28 sale at GC best reflects the retail market at $2081, including buyers fee. We have CPG at $2200 so I think that purchase was within our market tolerance.
One last comment on this... our prices at CDN are unusual in that they are formulated from "wholesale up," not "retail down". In other words, we derive our pricing based on what we feel the wholesale value is for a coin. In this case, we think wholesale for a 1904 Indian cent PCGS/CAC MS66 RD is $1700. Collector pricing is set around 25% premium over this amount.
All pricing is subjective and all coins need to be evaluated by the buyer for his/her tolerance and willingness to stretch, etc.
Thanks again
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half-dollars/half-dollars/1875-cc-cc-50c-wb-102-die-pair-7-r4-au55-pcgs-cac-pcgs-800691-/a/1341-3663.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half-dollars/1878-cc-50c-wb-101-die-pair-1-r4-au55-pcgs-cac/a/1341-3666.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115