JA your comments on Registry weighting are refreshing.
Several months ago I sent an email to PCGS that included suggested weights. I requested they evaluate their weighting for Liberty Seated dollars.
This was their response, "Thank you for your patience. I have heard back from our experts and I regret to inform you that at this time we will not be updating the weights of the LSD sets. However, I will keep this info you have provided in the event that we upgrade the weighting system at some point within Set Registry. Thank you for your patience and understanding. It's truly members such as yourself that make the Set Registry what it is today."
Opening a CAC registry with accurate weighting will be a vast improvement and should be appreciated by all numismatists. If I can be of assistance let me know.
With access to the thinking of John Feigenbaum, this thread probably represents one of the best “values” of this Forum!
Here’s a question: While CAC does not “recognize” Plus grades, “the market” does recognize the extra value in coins with CAC’s that also have plus grades, even though the sticker only says the coin is solid for that “whole number” grade, and is NOT saying the coin is solid as a plus. Can your publication provide pricing guidance for this situation? In many cases of high grades, a coin with a CAC AND a Plus realizes in auctions more than double the price of coins with CAC’s without the Plus. One example: 1858 Large Letters Flying Eagle Cents, MS66 vs MS66+.
Thanks.
Steve
I am now just beginning to realize how many Big Hitters are here. Truly a vast resource of knowledge and experience. Amazing
Hey, I think we all learn from experienced collectors, regardless of where in the pool they swim. Owners of high valued collections do not necessarily know more than owners of collections valued much lower. Experience is a big key to knowledge. We all learn from our mistakes made over time!
The old app will no longer work as of today. The new app called "Greysheet: Rare Coin Pricing" in the app store (iOS and Android) are required. You can access the download page here: https://www.greysheet.com/mobile-apps.
We stopped supporting the "CDN Pricing Tool" app over a year ago.
Thanks. The new app is really nice. Way improved over the old one.
We think it is. Thank you! It also includes the ability to easily access the printed guides that you order/subscribe. Try the tablet app as well. It's super.
I understand why there isn’t pricing for grades under AG3 for most series, but could pricing be added for the earlier types in those grades? The 1793 coins instantly come to mind, but it would probably be useful for the flowing hair types of 1794 and 1795 as well. Just something to think about and consider.
I am salivating at the prospect of a CAC only registry. I have two hopes for it: (1) it will be possible to transfer easily (automatically?!) all the fields of information in the PCGS MyInventory to this registry (2) it will not be competitive. I, for one, don’t understand registry “rankings” other than as a novel commercial trick to entice people who don’t understand coins into believing that high grades on plastic slabs matter. They don’t to me.
I am salivating at the prospect of a CAC only registry. I have two hopes for it: (1) it will be possible to transfer easily (automatically?!) all the fields of information in the PCGS MyInventory to this registry (2) it will not be competitive. I, for one, don’t understand registry “rankings” other than as a novel commercial trick to entice people who don’t understand coins into believing that high grades on plastic slabs matter. They don’t to me.
The Registry Set scoring systems are rigged to favor extremely common modern * because the TPG's want their submissions (certifying them is their main source of profit). But a CAC Registry Set would not be corrupted by modern schlock because CAC refuses to grade it.
John, This is so wonderful that you take the time to interface with all of us collectors. I have a good candidate for review. CAC approved 1950 Franklin Half PROOF CAMEO. There have been at least 5 auctions in the past couple years that are all much higher than the current greysheet CAC price of $1,500. All have been $2000+ and one was as high as $6,600. Legend Auction Lot#169 PCGS Dec 2021 Sale price $2,173.75 Heritage Auction Lot# 21625 NGC Jan 2021 Sale Price $2,640 Stack’s Bowers Lot#5264 PCGS Nov 2020 Sale Price $2,040 Heritage Auction Lot#7344 NGC Oct 2020 Sale Price $2,040 Heritage Auction Lot#7460 NGC Apr 2020 Sale Price $6,600
John, This is so wonderful that you take the time to interface with all of us collectors. I have a good candidate for review. CAC approved 1950 Franklin Half PROOF CAMEO. There have been at least 5 auctions in the past couple years that are all much higher than the current greysheet CAC price of $1,500. All have been $2000+ and one was as high as $6,600. Legend Auction Lot#169 PCGS Dec 2021 Sale price $2,173.75 Heritage Auction Lot# 21625 NGC Jan 2021 Sale Price $2,640 Stack’s Bowers Lot#5264 PCGS Nov 2020 Sale Price $2,040 Heritage Auction Lot#7344 NGC Oct 2020 Sale Price $2,040 Heritage Auction Lot#7460 NGC Apr 2020 Sale Price $6,600
Thanks for looking! Nick
My pleasure! I just reviewed the 1950 Cameo half dollars (and the DCAMs). Updated prices should appear online later today.
I'm thinking of of buying a 1857-s Spiked Shield PL but there is no pricing on the CAC site. Are you planning on adding something? Thank you Jeff
I can't find enough market information on the PL 1857-S $20 to establish values for them at this time. I see that PCGS price guide has a high premium for this item: $40,000 in MS63 vs. $9000 for non-PL. Perhaps this is warranted (???), but I would caution you that a "surface variant" such as PL is not as numismatically interesting as other varieties, or issues. In other words a low-pop PL coin is not as rare as a low pop regular issue. Good luck and thanks for the question!
Thank you! One just sold in auction, a MS66+PL CAC for $129,000. Can that assist in pricing?
It certainly the kind of information you need to make an informed decision. As I've said in prior posts we don't put values on + coins, and this is certainly a coin where the 66+ is going to be meaningful. Potential pop top, PL, etc. It's a bit too specialized for CDN to assign a price at this time.
I would like to bring to your attention the 1849-o Half Dime. This coin has one of the lowest mintages in the seated liberty half dime series. More importantly, it has extremely low survivorship. CAC has certified only 21 examples. The problem is, the rarity of the coin makes it very difficult to find published auction sales figures. I did some research and offer the following with respect to au53 graded specimens:
Currently, the CAC Guide price for an au53 is at $1190.
The PCGS Price Guide is at $1400. This number has remained constant since July 1, 2008.
Great Collections auctioned a pcgs au53 CAC on December 3, 2017 at $1250.62.
Gerry Fortin listed a pcgs au53 in October 2018 for $1600. He describes the coin as follows in his archive:
Rare Date, Choice Original, Light Gold-Blue Patina, Satiny Residual Luster, Bold Strike, Accurately Graded. 1849 New Orleans strikes are a semi key date in the Liberty Seated half dollar series. My radar is always on the look out for this date along 1846 and 1853-O No Arrows. At the 2018 FUN show, this lovely example walked up to the GFRC table and was immediately purchased. PCGS has graded all of four pieces at AU53 with another five at AU55. Most importantly, only nine examples total of this date have been approved at CAC. Yes, only 9! This is the only AU53 example approved with another at AU58 followed by four in mint state. The date is definitely a rarity in choice condition with this example being well above average in quality. Overall, this example is choice original with light gold blue patina on the obverse and faint gold on the reverse. Residual satiny luster is evident during bright light viewing. Housed in old blue label PCGS holder with standard ring insert. Don't wait long to grab this choice 1849-O example.
Paradime Coins listed a pcgs au53 for $1750. The description is below:
Rare in all grades, 1849 New Orleans Half Dime has one of the smallest mintage in the entire Liberty Seated Half Dime series, as such only 200 are known today in all grades. In AU this coin becomes a 4 figure coin. Plagued by worn dies, all 1849-O H10C are struck from worn dies, as such finding an example with high eye appeal is incredibly tough. The present example is toned with some cobalt blue around the peripheries. On the reverse, we see some die clash, indicative of worn dies. A lovely example with tremendous amount of history. CAC POP 2 with no auction records except 3 grades lower XF45 CAC that sold for $1,050 in 2019. A want list coin for many collectors who require a CAC and problem-free example PCGS example.
Overall, I am finding that the CAC price guide is below current market levels for liberty seated coinage. I realize that the rarity of the coins in this series makes it hard to update the guide on a continuous basis, but this rare date perhaps merits your reconsideration. A number of us on this Forum have noticed that the PCGS prices are now exceeding the CAC guide prices. While I’m not suggesting the PCGS price guide is always correct (I have no clue how PCGS arrives at its levels), the claim of premium pricing for CAC coins is made anomalous by this discrepancy. This is the case for this example.
I would like to bring to your attention the 1849-o Half Dime. This coin has one of the lowest mintages in the seated liberty half dime series. More importantly, it has extremely low survivorship. CAC has certified only 21 examples. The problem is, the rarity of the coin makes it very difficult to find published auction sales figures. I did some research and offer the following with respect to au53 graded specimens:
Currently, the CAC Guide price for an au53 is at $1190.
The PCGS Price Guide is at $1400. This number has remained constant since July 1, 2008.
Great Collections auctioned a pcgs au53 CAC on December 3, 2017 at $1250.62.
Gerry Fortin listed a pcgs au53 in October 2018 for $1600. He describes the coin as follows in his archive:
Rare Date, Choice Original, Light Gold-Blue Patina, Satiny Residual Luster, Bold Strike, Accurately Graded. 1849 New Orleans strikes are a semi key date in the Liberty Seated half dollar series. My radar is always on the look out for this date along 1846 and 1853-O No Arrows. At the 2018 FUN show, this lovely example walked up to the GFRC table and was immediately purchased. PCGS has graded all of four pieces at AU53 with another five at AU55. Most importantly, only nine examples total of this date have been approved at CAC. Yes, only 9! This is the only AU53 example approved with another at AU58 followed by four in mint state. The date is definitely a rarity in choice condition with this example being well above average in quality. Overall, this example is choice original with light gold blue patina on the obverse and faint gold on the reverse. Residual satiny luster is evident during bright light viewing. Housed in old blue label PCGS holder with standard ring insert. Don't wait long to grab this choice 1849-O example.
Paradime Coins listed a pcgs au53 for $1750. The description is below:
Rare in all grades, 1849 New Orleans Half Dime has one of the smallest mintage in the entire Liberty Seated Half Dime series, as such only 200 are known today in all grades. In AU this coin becomes a 4 figure coin. Plagued by worn dies, all 1849-O H10C are struck from worn dies, as such finding an example with high eye appeal is incredibly tough. The present example is toned with some cobalt blue around the peripheries. On the reverse, we see some die clash, indicative of worn dies. A lovely example with tremendous amount of history. CAC POP 2 with no auction records except 3 grades lower XF45 CAC that sold for $1,050 in 2019. A want list coin for many collectors who require a CAC and problem-free example PCGS example.
Overall, I am finding that the CAC price guide is below current market levels for liberty seated coinage. I realize that the rarity of the coins in this series makes it hard to update the guide on a continuous basis, but this rare date perhaps merits your reconsideration. A number of us on this Forum have noticed that the PCGS prices are now exceeding the CAC guide prices. While I’m not suggesting the PCGS price guide is always correct (I have no clue how PCGS arrives at its levels), the claim of premium pricing for CAC coins is made anomalous by this discrepancy. This is the case for this example.
Thank you.
Thank you for this. I have reviewed the pricing on these and updates should be live in a few hours. In general, I'd say this coin falls into the category of the many Seated coins that a far scarcer than their prices suggest and sellers can typically ask what they want. When a buyer comes along, you have to grab it because there are so few around -- in any grade. Collecting seated coinage requires tons of patience. Enjoy!
John, I was curious about the 1818 Bust Half AU55 CAC (or even perhaps the series); since I am bringing up a relatively generic date. I was looking at auction history and PCGS price guide history; 6-9 years ago CAC auction results were above PCGS price guide values (which I would expect - auctions for CAC pieces $1400-$1600; however now there is quite a LONG lag. PCGS price guide value for an AU55 has been relatively flat around $1000-$1150 (for nearly 10 years) but has surged higher in the past 18 months to $1350; however greysheet CAC pricing has dropped or remained the same ~$1100. Perhaps the 6-9 year ago CAC auction prices would now reflect current CAC values? Thoughts? I may do a similar look at the capped bust quarters and dimes.... Best regards, Nick
Comments
Several months ago I sent an email to PCGS that included suggested weights. I requested they evaluate their weighting for Liberty Seated dollars.
This was their response, "Thank you for your patience. I have heard back from our experts and I regret to inform you that at this time we will not be updating the weights of the LSD sets. However, I will keep this info you have provided in the event that we upgrade the weighting system at some point within Set Registry. Thank you for your patience and understanding. It's truly members such as yourself that make the Set Registry what it is today."
Opening a CAC registry with accurate weighting will be a vast improvement and should be appreciated by all numismatists. If I can be of assistance let me know.
Steve
We stopped supporting the "CDN Pricing Tool" app over a year ago.
*mod edit
This is so wonderful that you take the time to interface with all of us collectors. I have a good candidate for review.
CAC approved 1950 Franklin Half PROOF CAMEO. There have been at least 5 auctions in the past couple years that are all much higher than the current greysheet CAC price of $1,500. All have been $2000+ and one was as high as $6,600.
Legend Auction Lot#169 PCGS Dec 2021 Sale price $2,173.75
Heritage Auction Lot# 21625 NGC Jan 2021 Sale Price $2,640
Stack’s Bowers Lot#5264 PCGS Nov 2020 Sale Price $2,040
Heritage Auction Lot#7344 NGC Oct 2020 Sale Price $2,040
Heritage Auction Lot#7460 NGC Apr 2020 Sale Price $6,600
Thanks for looking!
Nick
Best,
John
I would like to bring to your attention the 1849-o Half Dime. This coin has one of the lowest mintages in the seated liberty half dime series. More importantly, it has extremely low survivorship. CAC has certified only 21 examples. The problem is, the rarity of the coin makes it very difficult to find published auction sales figures. I did some research and offer the following with respect to au53 graded specimens:
Currently, the CAC Guide price for an au53 is at $1190.
The PCGS Price Guide is at $1400. This number has remained constant since July 1, 2008.
Great Collections auctioned a pcgs au53 CAC on December 3, 2017 at $1250.62.
Gerry Fortin listed a pcgs au53 in October 2018 for $1600. He describes the coin as follows in his archive:
Rare Date, Choice Original, Light Gold-Blue Patina, Satiny Residual Luster, Bold Strike, Accurately Graded. 1849 New Orleans strikes are a semi key date in the Liberty Seated half dollar series. My radar is always on the look out for this date along 1846 and 1853-O No Arrows. At the 2018 FUN show, this lovely example walked up to the GFRC table and was immediately purchased. PCGS has graded all of four pieces at AU53 with another five at AU55. Most importantly, only nine examples total of this date have been approved at CAC. Yes, only 9! This is the only AU53 example approved with another at AU58 followed by four in mint state. The date is definitely a rarity in choice condition with this example being well above average in quality. Overall, this example is choice original with light gold blue patina on the obverse and faint gold on the reverse. Residual satiny luster is evident during bright light viewing. Housed in old blue label PCGS holder with standard ring insert. Don't wait long to grab this choice 1849-O example.
Paradime Coins listed a pcgs au53 for $1750. The description is below:
Rare in all grades, 1849 New Orleans Half Dime has one of the smallest mintage in the entire Liberty Seated Half Dime series, as such only 200 are known today in all grades. In AU this coin becomes a 4 figure coin. Plagued by worn dies, all 1849-O H10C are struck from worn dies, as such finding an example with high eye appeal is incredibly tough. The present example is toned with some cobalt blue around the peripheries. On the reverse, we see some die clash, indicative of worn dies. A lovely example with tremendous amount of history. CAC POP 2 with no auction records except 3 grades lower XF45 CAC that sold for $1,050 in 2019. A want list coin for many collectors who require a CAC and problem-free example PCGS example.
Overall, I am finding that the CAC price guide is below current market levels for liberty seated coinage. I realize that the rarity of the coins in this series makes it hard to update the guide on a continuous basis, but this rare date perhaps merits your reconsideration. A number of us on this Forum have noticed that the PCGS prices are now exceeding the CAC guide prices. While I’m not suggesting the PCGS price guide is always correct (I have no clue how PCGS arrives at its levels), the claim of premium pricing for CAC coins is made anomalous by this discrepancy. This is the case for this example.
Thank you.
John
I was curious about the 1818 Bust Half AU55 CAC (or even perhaps the series); since I am bringing up a relatively generic date. I was looking at auction history and PCGS price guide history; 6-9 years ago CAC auction results were above PCGS price guide values (which I would expect - auctions for CAC pieces $1400-$1600; however now there is quite a LONG lag. PCGS price guide value for an AU55 has been relatively flat around $1000-$1150 (for nearly 10 years) but has surged higher in the past 18 months to $1350; however greysheet CAC pricing has dropped or remained the same ~$1100. Perhaps the 6-9 year ago CAC auction prices would now reflect current CAC values? Thoughts?
I may do a similar look at the capped bust quarters and dimes....
Best regards,
Nick