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Upgrading a green CAC coin….

Since green stickers are given to “A” and “B” coins, I was curious:

1. How does one know if their green stickered coin is an “A” or a “ B”?

2. If a green stickered coin upgrades to the next higher grade, and then gets another green sticker at the new higher grade, is it safe to assume that the lower graded coin was an “A” and the higher graded coin is now a “B”?
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Comments

  • drddm said:

    Since green stickers are given to “A” and “B” coins, I was curious:

    1. How does one know if their green stickered coin is an “A” or a “ B”?

    2. If a green stickered coin upgrades to the next higher grade, and then gets another green sticker at the new higher grade, is it safe to assume that the lower graded coin was an “A” and the higher graded coin is now a “B”?

    1. You do not.

    2. If CAC believes that a coin grades one point finer and would receive a green sticker in that higher grade, CAC will anoint a gold sticker.

    A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.
  • drddm said:

    Since green stickers are given to “A” and “B” coins, I was curious:

    1. How does one know if their green stickered coin is an “A” or a “ B”?

    2. If a green stickered coin upgrades to the next higher grade, and then gets another green sticker at the new higher grade, is it safe to assume that the lower graded coin was an “A” and the higher graded coin is now a “B”?

    p.s.- To fully answer your original #2 question, it could depend on the coin. As consistent as CAC is, I have green bean coins that had also received green beans in slabs one point lower. Otherwise, my original answer applies.
  • CACfan said:
    A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.

    I have at least a dozen, if not more, green beaned coins that were once green beaned at the previous lower grade. 

    How do you explain that? 
  • From what I understand a gold CAC usually means the grade is 1.5 or 2 grades higher than the TPG grade. A gold CAC will definitely green CAC at a 1 point higher grade, but that doesn't mean if you down grade a green CAC coin 1 point lower, it will for sure gold CAC.
  • drddm said:


    CACfan said:

    drddm said:

    A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.


    I have at least a dozen, if not more, green beaned coins that were once green beaned at the previous lower grade. 

    How do you explain that? 


    Read my p.s. above. But generally, CAC has been amazingly consistent with my coins even when the coins are regraded and serial numbers changed.
  • CACfan said:

    drddm said:


    CACfan said:

    drddm said:

    A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.


    I have at least a dozen, if not more, green beaned coins that were once green beaned at the previous lower grade. 

    How do you explain that? 
    Read my p.s. above. But generally, CAC has been amazingly consistent with my coins even when the coins are regraded and serial numbers changed.

    your comment here to share that "CAC has been amazingly consistent" is super valuable for us to see

    really good to know
  • I believe JA has said that he believes there are to many grades currently. For instance there is no need for an AU53. So if you had a coin that was green cac at the AU50 and then it cracked out and got an AU53 grade. You can probably expect a green sticker again.
  • I know of at least 4 pcgs cac ms68 Washington Quarters that were ms67 green cac coins. Two or maybe even three of those I was the underbidder on in the ms67 auction. It would have been more fair to the consignors I suppose if they had been gold cac at ms67 (perhaps I would have bid higher but perhaps I'd have had even less chance of winning). As honest and fair as I believe CAC intentions are... standards are not perfect and have not remained perfectly stable. Doing any better may just be an unrealistic expectation. Or perhaps they could do better and do a bit more research on these really low pop newly graded coins to see if they had already been through. But then maybe they'd need to raise fees because of the extra work. No solution would be perfect.
  • From what I understand a gold CAC usually means the grade is 1.5 or 2 grades higher than the TPG grade. A gold CAC will definitely green CAC at a 1 point higher grade, but that doesn't mean if you down grade a green CAC coin 1 point lower, it will for sure gold CAC.

    In interviews, JA has said that that a green sticker means that CAC believes a coin to be solid (B) or high-end (A) for its grade. And that a gold bean would equate to at least a green bean if graded one grade finer. By default, this suggests that any A CAC coin could be under-graded by one grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.
  • CACfan said:
    From what I understand a gold CAC usually means the grade is 1.5 or 2 grades higher than the TPG grade. A gold CAC will definitely green CAC at a 1 point higher grade, but that doesn't mean if you down grade a green CAC coin 1 point lower, it will for sure gold CAC.
    In interviews, JA has said that that a green sticker means that CAC believes a coin to be solid (B) or high-end (A) for its grade. And that a gold bean would equate to at least a green bean if graded one grade finer. By default, this suggests that any A CAC coin could be under-graded by one grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.
    Possibly but not necessarily. An A coin might just be in the top 25% of the grade category or it might be borderline to catch the next higher MS grade. 
  • edited September 16
    Stevie said:


    CACfan said:

    From what I understand a gold CAC usually means the grade is 1.5 or 2 grades higher than the TPG grade. A gold CAC will definitely green CAC at a 1 point higher grade, but that doesn't mean if you down grade a green CAC coin 1 point lower, it will for sure gold CAC.

    In interviews, JA has said that that a green sticker means that CAC believes a coin to be solid (B) or high-end (A) for its grade. And that a gold bean would equate to at least a green bean if graded one grade finer. By default, this suggests that any A CAC coin could be under-graded by one grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.

    You said: Possibly but not necessarily. An A coin might just be in the top 25% of the grade category or it might be borderline to catch the next higher MS grade. 

    Reread my comment. I said that A coins "COULD" be under-graded, not definitely are. Thus, my post was correct.

    JA is the Wayne Gretzky/Babe Ruth/Michael Jordan of rare coin grading. He knows his subject better than anyone else on the planet. After all, he is the lone FINALIZER for CAC, which is by far the market's most accepted determiner of PQ status. Thus, he alone sets the standard. In my view, he does a consistently accurate, UNBIASED job of it. He will buy his rare mistake off the market (a de facto grading guarantee).
  • From what I understand a gold CAC usually means the grade is 1.5 or 2 grades higher than the TPG grade. A gold CAC will definitely green CAC at a 1 point higher grade, but that doesn't mean if you down grade a green CAC coin 1 point lower, it will for sure gold CAC.

    Very well said @EliteCollection. And a green may green at the next higher grade.

  • CACfan said:

    drddm said:

    Since green stickers are given to “A” and “B” coins, I was curious:

    1. How does one know if their green stickered coin is an “A” or a “ B”?

    2. If a green stickered coin upgrades to the next higher grade, and then gets another green sticker at the new higher grade, is it safe to assume that the lower graded coin was an “A” and the higher graded coin is now a “B”?

    ……..
    A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.
    The bold was made by me for emphasis over the words that are incorrect. A green bean does NOT indicate that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade. It deems a coin is solid for the grade, which is different. Even further down you correctly say it means coins with a green CAC bean are solid for the grade.

    We agree we regularly read that grades are divided into A, B, and C coins. If instead they were divided into A,B,C, and D coins, and CAC would sticker A and B coins, but not C and D, then one can say the green bean deems a coin above average, but that is not the case.

    Steve
  • CACfan said:

    drddm said:

    Since green stickers are given to “A” and “B” coins, I was curious:

    1. How does one know if their green stickered coin is an “A” or a “ B”?

    2. If a green stickered coin upgrades to the next higher grade, and then gets another green sticker at the new higher grade, is it safe to assume that the lower graded coin was an “A” and the higher graded coin is now a “B”?

    ……..
    A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.
    The bold was made by me for emphasis over the words that are incorrect. A green bean does NOT indicate that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade. It deems a coin is solid for the grade, which is different. Even further down you correctly say it means coins with a green CAC bean are solid for the grade.

    We agree we regularly read that grades are divided into A, B, and C coins. If instead they were divided into A,B,C, and D coins, and CAC would sticker A and B coins, but not C and D, then one can say the green bean deems a coin above average, but that is not the case.

    Steve
    Where is JA when you need him? He said that C means average for the grade. Thus, A and B are above average. Of course, he implied, via his description of gold stickers, that A coins can be outright under-graded by a grade but would not green bean at that higher grade.
  • CACfan said:
    Since green stickers are given to “A” and “B” coins, I was curious:

    1. How does one know if their green stickered coin is an “A” or a “ B”?

    2. If a green stickered coin upgrades to the next higher grade, and then gets another green sticker at the new higher grade, is it safe to assume that the lower graded coin was an “A” and the higher graded coin is now a “B”?
    …….. A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.
    The bold was made by me for emphasis over the words that are incorrect. A green bean does NOT indicate that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade. It deems a coin is solid for the grade, which is different. Even further down you correctly say it means coins with a green CAC bean are solid for the grade. We agree we regularly read that grades are divided into A, B, and C coins. If instead they were divided into A,B,C, and D coins, and CAC would sticker A and B coins, but not C and D, then one can say the green bean deems a coin above average, but that is not the case. Steve
    Where is JA when you need him? He said that C means average for the grade. Thus, A and B are above average. Of course, he implied, via his description of gold stickers, that A coins can be outright under-graded by a grade but would not green bean at that higher grade.
    I don’t understand. JA said a gold sticker would easily be solid or high for the next grade, inferring that it wouldn’t just barely make the next grade. By this logic in theory it should green sticker at the next PCGS grade level. 
  • edited September 19
    Stevie said:


    CACfan said:

    CACfan said:

    drddm said:

    Since green stickers are given to “A” and “B” coins, I was curious:

    1. How does one know if their green stickered coin is an “A” or a “ B”?

    2. If a green stickered coin upgrades to the next higher grade, and then gets another green sticker at the new higher grade, is it safe to assume that the lower graded coin was an “A” and the higher graded coin is now a “B”?

    ……..
    A green bean indicates that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade or (rarely) under-graded by a grade but would not be green beaned in that higher grade.
    The bold was made by me for emphasis over the words that are incorrect. A green bean does NOT indicate that CAC deems a coin above average for the grade. It deems a coin is solid for the grade, which is different. Even further down you correctly say it means coins with a green CAC bean are solid for the grade.

    We agree we regularly read that grades are divided into A, B, and C coins. If instead they were divided into A,B,C, and D coins, and CAC would sticker A and B coins, but not C and D, then one can say the green bean deems a coin above average, but that is not the case.

    Steve
    Where is JA when you need him? He said that C means average for the grade. Thus, A and B are above average. Of course, he implied, via his description of gold stickers, that A coins can be outright under-graded by a grade but would not green bean at that higher grade.

    YOU SAID: I don’t understand. JA said a gold sticker would easily be solid or high for the next grade, inferring that it wouldn’t just barely make the next grade. By this logic in theory it should green sticker at the next PCGS grade level. 

    MY REPLY: I should have said that A coins that are GREEN beaned could be under-graded by one grade but would not be greened in that higher grade. JA's description of GOLD beans implies this.
  • edited September 19
    I disagree that JA said that C coins are average for the grade. My recollection is he said C coins are often properly graded, but at the lower end of the grade range. In addition, another reason I believe you’re incorrect, is if C coins were indeed average for the grade, then I ask you “What coins are below average”???

    So you really believe that JA said what you say he said?

    Steve
  • I have a headache
  • edited September 20
    skier07 said:

    I have a headache



  • @CACfan @Winesteven I'm currently sitting in my college religion class reading this thread trying to decide if I'm getting a worse headache from the conversation or lecture haha. Maybe I should start paying more attention in class.
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