I disagree that JA said that C coins are average for the grade. My recollection is he said C coins are often properly graded, but at the lower end of the grade range. In addition, another reason I believe you’re incorrect, is if C coins were indeed average for the grade, then I ask you “What coins are below average”???
So you really believe that JA said what you say he said?
Hopefully @JACAC can chime in to answer this question, which should hopefully be black and white:
While "C" coins are often/usually properly graded, are they at the lower end of the grade range, or are they average for grade? If average for the grade, then what coins are below average for the grade? "D" coins?
I have arrived to settle this argument once and for all. LOL
While JA is a genius he is not perfecr. LOL.
The green vs gold stickering conundrum does stem from JA view of grades.
The best example is my 1916-D dime in PCGS OGH G-04 I plucked at the Boston ANA show back in 2010.
I brought it to CAC fully expecting a gold sticker as I truly believed it to be a G-06 grade in a G-04 sla Anyone who knows 1916-D dimes also knows that they are among the most difficult coin to find conservatively graded.
The coin came back green stickered. I immediately trudged back to CAC with the coin to protest.
ME:: John this coin is a G-06 and should be gold stickered.
JA: That still means it is in the Good grade which does not qualify it for a gold sticker.
ME: But when you agree an MS-65 is really a full MS-66 you gold sticker it? They are both Mint State or more specifically Gem Uncirculated. Same for all of the AU grades.
JA: You make a valid point. I will bring it back to double check.
Gold stickered. One of only two 1916-D dimes in ALL GRADES to gold sticker.
I have arrived to settle this argument once and for all. LOL
While JA is a genius he is not perfecr. LOL.
The green vs gold stickering conundrum does stem from JA view of grades.
The best example is my 1916-D dime in PCGS OGH G-04 I plucked at the Boston ANA show back in 2010.
I brought it to CAC fully expecting a gold sticker as I truly believed it to be a G-06 grade in a G-04 sla Anyone who knows 1916-D dimes also knows that they are among the most difficult coin to find conservatively graded.
The coin came back green stickered. I immediately trudged back to CAC with the coin to protest.
ME:: John this coin is a G-06 and should be gold stickered.
JA: That still means it is in the Good grade which does not qualify it for a gold sticker.
ME: But when you agree an MS-65 is really a full MS-66 you gold sticker it? They are both Mint State or more specifically Gem Uncirculated. Same for all of the AU grades.
JA: You make a valid point. I will bring it back to double check.
Gold stickered. One of only two 1916-D dimes in ALL GRADES to gold sticker.
Which means that if it were graded G6 by PCGS it would have merely green beaned. Also, one coin is not a valid sampling.
In this forum, JA recently said that CAC has approved 600,000 coins but rejected 900,000. Thus, only the top 40% have been beaned and all of those 40% are above average, with coin number 750,000 being the average or mean of that 1.5 million data set. And 150,000 of the rejected coins are also above average but do not quite make the top 40% CAC standard.
Of course, there are other factors and variables at play but, roughly speaking, all green CAC coins are above average for the respective grades according to JA, the Wayne Gretzky/Babe Ruth/Michael Jordan/Muhammad Ali of graders.
@CACfan, I’ll agree with you if @JACAC says “B” coins with green stickers are above average for the grade (and therefore agrees with the implication that “C” coins are average for the grade).
My take is that the green bean represents that the coin is accurately graded and that there are no surface issues of evident concern at the time of review. I am suspect of the language that the coin represents above average even if the market perceives it as such with the premium assigned.
My take is that the green bean represents that the coin is accurately graded and that there are no surface issues of evident concern at the time of review. I am suspect of the language that the coin represents above average even if the market perceives it as such with the premium assigned.
On one hand, if coins are classified as being either A, B or C quality, doesn’t that indicate that they are either high-end, mid-range (average) or low-end/problem coins, respectively?
On the other hand, if only 40% of the submissions sticker as being of either A or B quality, doesn’t that indicate that B quality is above average?😉
I noticed that CAC uses the term “premium quality” to describe coins that receive a CAC sticker. How does CAC define premium quality?
For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B, and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade, and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker.
I noticed that CAC uses the term “premium quality” to describe coins that receive a CAC sticker. How does CAC define premium quality?
For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B, and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade, and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker.
Translation: CAC considers B coins to be “solid for the grade”, which equates to “premium quality”.
So are “C” coins then average for the grade, if “B” coins are premium quality? If “C” coins are average, then which coins are below average for the grade?
So are “C” coins then average for the grade, if “B” coins are premium quality? If “C” coins are average, then which coins are below average for the grade?
I think it’s a matter of semantics. To me Solid B coins are above average and A coins are very high end. So C coins call them what you like mean average/low end to me.
We judge the quality of coins linearly but the surviving population would (in general) fit a bell curve, ie an exponential curve, so there just are fewer coins that fit into avg (B) or above avg (A) in any grade than below avg (C). Factor in too that many of those above avg coins get submitted over and over until they finally make that C- (or D) quality in the next grade.
Again, JA recently said (in this forum) that CAC has graded 1.5 million coins yet approved only 600,000 (40%). And those 1.5 million submissions were already perceived (by the submitters) to be above average for their respective grades. And I suspect that most submitters were dealers who were relatively sophisticated about grading. Do the math. A green CAC bean means above average for the grade. Period.
We judge the quality of coins linearly but the surviving population would (in general) fit a bell curve, ie an exponential curve, so there just are fewer coins that fit into avg (B) or above avg (A) in any grade than below avg (C). Factor in too that many of those above avg coins get submitted over and over until they finally make that C- (or D) quality in the next grade.
I suspect that the vast majority of CAC approved coins are worth less than $1,000 each and thus would not be subject to resubmissions intended to achieve ultimate grade status.
JA might become the Aaron Judge (AJ) of graders. LOL.
But AJ has to first become the JA of baseball hitters. 😀
Aaron Judge only has 3,132 career plate appearances. And at least a few current players have better overall career stats, as do many former players. Despite already being 31 years old, Judge has had just two Hall of Fame seasons.
So, no, AJ is not the JA of baseball. It is Babe Ruth for the win.
Comments
While "C" coins are often/usually properly graded, are they at the lower end of the grade range, or are they average for grade? If average for the grade, then what coins are below average for the grade? "D" coins?
Thanks.
Steve
While JA is a genius he is not perfecr. LOL.
The green vs gold stickering conundrum does stem from JA view of grades.
The best example is my 1916-D dime in PCGS OGH G-04 I plucked at the Boston ANA show back in 2010.
I brought it to CAC fully expecting a gold sticker as I truly believed it to be a G-06 grade in a G-04 sla
Anyone who knows 1916-D dimes also knows that they are among the most difficult coin to find conservatively graded.
The coin came back green stickered. I immediately trudged back to CAC with the coin to protest.
ME:: John this coin is a G-06 and should be gold stickered.
JA: That still means it is in the Good grade which does not qualify it for a gold sticker.
ME: But when you agree an MS-65 is really a full MS-66 you gold sticker it? They are both Mint State or more specifically Gem Uncirculated. Same for all of the AU grades.
JA: You make a valid point. I will bring it back to double check.
Gold stickered. One of only two 1916-D dimes in ALL GRADES to gold sticker.
(don't hit me, I am old and my wife has stopped enjoying my humor, so I peruse the boards for fresh targets ).
Of course, there are other factors and variables at play but, roughly speaking, all green CAC coins are above average for the respective grades according to JA, the Wayne Gretzky/Babe Ruth/Michael Jordan/Muhammad Ali of graders.
But AJ has to first become the JA of baseball hitters. 😀
On the other hand, if only 40% of the submissions sticker as being of either A or B quality, doesn’t that indicate that B quality is above average?😉
I noticed that CAC uses the term “premium quality” to describe coins that receive a CAC sticker. How does CAC define premium quality?
For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B, and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade, and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker.
So, no, AJ is not the JA of baseball. It is Babe Ruth for the win.