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CAC Grading Company Announcement & FAQ Question Submission

edited October 15 in General
On 10/14/2022, We made the following announcement:

Dear CAC member,

There have been many rumors swirling about the possibility of CAC becoming a traditional grading service and I believe it is time to address them. Technically speaking, the transaction has not been completed yet. However, I am extremely confident that the transaction will close by the end of 2022.  If everything goes according to plan, we anticipate a “soft opening“ in the first quarter of 2023. The new company, CAC Grading, will have the same logo and will be located in a 29,000 square ft. facility in Virginia Beach.

We will keep our Bedminster, NJ office for stickering and customer service.  Your CAC member number will remain the same but there will be a new application and submitter agreement as it will be a different corporation.  We will also be adding approximately 100 new partners, many you are familiar with. I will be heavily involved as the president and CEO, signing a 10-year contract and spending at least one week each month in Virginia Beach until our team of 3 world class graders morphs into an interchangeable unit. In addition, I will be available 24/7 for tiebreakers if our team can’t come to a consensus.

We’ve already spent weeks collaborating with our grading team and I’m happy to report that we have slight differences of opinion in less than 2% of the coins. CAC stickering will continue through 2023, but our goal is to drastically reduce demand with a new pricing structure. Our loyal collector members will be entitled to submit 20 coins annually at the current normal tier rate and will only be charged for coins that sticker. After the 20-coin limit, the new rate will apply. Applicants that are currently on our waiting list will qualify for this service, as well.

It is very likely stickering will continue into the year 2033, but we do expect to eventually phase out the stickering service. Ultimately, collector members will determine the longevity of this service.

We will of course introduce a user-friendly registry program featuring two new registries.  Our most popular registry will include NGC and PCGS coins, stickered or not, and the new CAC-holdered coins. We realize that there are many coins, especially from 1792-1807, that are virtually impossible to collect exclusively in CAC quality, so this registry has potential for broader inclusion.  However, the CAC stickered and holdered coins will score higher than the non-CAC examples. The second registry, “CAC exclusive,” will consist solely of NGC-CAC, PCGS-CAC and CAC encapsulated coins.  When you submit to us your coin information, your CAC coins will populate and be showcased on both registries. 

In order to keep our backlog under control the new company, CAC grading, will continue our current waiting list policy into the foreseeable future. Our goal is to provide top-notch customer service and turnaround times and I don’t believe this could be accomplished with unfettered growth. We aim to be the most consistent premium grading service, not the largest.

As many of you know, we have suspended our economy tier and it is highly possible this may be permanent with the exception of the 20-coin limit mentioned above. If this creates a hardship, please E-mail me at [email protected] and we will try our best to accommodate. 

We understand you may have questions at this time. We are in the process of building a comprehensive FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) section regarding the transition, so please follow the link below to submit your questions or refer to the other questions and answers therein. Your questions and answers will help other members find what they need as well.

Caccoin.com//forums

We appreciate your support and business through this time of change and are working hard to clear our submission backlog.
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This thread is dedicated to your questions regarding this process, so feel free to ask us anything and we will give what information we can. Your questions and answers will help improve the experience of other members moving forward.
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Comments

  • I assume there will be a guarantee? Can you elaborate on the specifics of that please?
  • Will CACG offer variety attribution as an add-on service?

    And if yes, will there be a meaningful attribution guarantee and a mechanism for making the submitter whole in the event of a botched attribution?

    Anyone that submits enough varieties soon learns that both NGC and PCGS are, unfortunately, very mediocre at variety attribution. And when they botch there is generally no compensation to the submitter. It is the submitter who must bear the expenses involved ( sending the coin to a recognized variety expert to get a letter attestment, then re-submitting the coin to the TPG, all on the submitter's dime).

  • Will there be a crossover service available? 
  • Hello Bushmaster. Please call me at your earliest convenience. I’d like to learn more about this problem. Thanks John A 
  • edited October 14

    Will CACG offer variety attribution as an add-on service?

    And if yes, will there be a meaningful attribution guarantee and a mechanism for making the submitter whole in the event of a botched attribution?

    Anyone that submits enough varieties soon learns that both NGC and PCGS are, unfortunately, very mediocre at variety attribution. And when they botch there is generally no compensation to the submitter. It is the submitter who must bear the expenses involved ( sending the coin to a recognized variety expert to get a letter attestment, then re-submitting the coin to the TPG, all on the submitter's dime).

    I solved that problem long ago by posting each variety's pickup points on the invoice and on a note taped to each slab. Prior to that, the grading services always corrected their mistakes at their expense and returned the corrected slabs at no charge to me.
  • How will plus grades from PCGS and NGC (whether stickered or unstickered) be handled at the new CAC grading company in terms of crossover submissions? Will CACG use plus grades themselves?
  • What will the holders be like? Will you be using the PCI/DGS equipment?

    Also, how will you be grading Morgan Dollars in GSA and Redfield/Paramount holders? It would be ideal if the grading label could be on the reverse so that the obverse of the slab is not marred by a grading "band" or a "tomb". What NGC does with Redfield/Paramount holders would be good.
  • Will economy tier submissions be opened anytime soon for those of us that have submitted less than 20 this year?
  • So a nice CAC Gold crossover should get that 2 point bump Baby!
  • Wabbit said:

    So a nice CAC Gold crossover should get that 2 point bump Baby!

    In yesterday's video, JA said that coins in gold bean slabs should stay there because they would be worth less in higher grade CAC-2 slabs.
  • Nutmeg- what exactly is PCI/DGS equipment?  JA
  • Nutmeg is likely referring to the Hallmark grading service slabs and equipment, which were sold off to PCI grading service when Hallmark dissolved. Hallmark was a solid grading service but IMHO the PCI aspect has polluted those slabs to the point that they would have an unwanted negative association with an unrespected company.

    Same is true of the SEGS slabs/eqiuipment. SEGS was nowhere near as bad as PCI and had an elegant nearly indestructible slab ( to the point of overkill?) but again that slab now carries even more negative baggage due to the slabbing operation being sold off to group that is (or was, at least) self slabbing their own coins for their own auctions. Too bad.
  • Will a coin that would be rejected for a sticker also be rejected for certification? 
  • Thanks Bushmaster. We’ve spent 7 months developing a holder and are ordering new equipment. JA 
  • CACfan said:
    So a nice CAC Gold crossover should get that 2 point bump Baby!
    In yesterday's video, JA said that coins in gold bean slabs should stay there because they would be worth less in higher grade CAC-2 slabs.

    I wonder if the green bean “classics” will become collectible based just on that alone .

    Meaning IE: 1925 66+ cac being left as such versus being placed in a premium cac slab. ( ? ) 

    P.S.    I’d love to send in one of my type sets which are all cac and have them CAC graded and sequentially numbered .  Another friend is already of the mindset to send his in … well here is his quote from last nights conversation.

    “. It will compelling to see exactly what CAC rolls out in 2023. If they’re slabbing I’m submitting because I know my collection will be graded fairly. I do hope that they keep things small scale and tight. They must have some innovative ideas to launch. In the end it comes down to great and original coins, and honesty. “

     I’m hoping for the same and placing my trust in JA / CAC’s hands 
  • Are you going to have a integrated NFC chip or a QR code on the slab?
  • Hi John - congrats on the new endeavor, its been a long time coming.

    Here's a list of a few questions that I think that many will have:

    1) Are the graders permitted to buy and sell coins for profit?

    2) Will the holders fit in PCGS/NGC boxes? When do we get a taste of the new holder - at least an image asap? Will CAC create a new storage box?

    3) Historically, grading companies will place a very rare and valuable coin in a designated holder that celebrates a historical moment for the grading company - say the 1,000,000th coin certified. Will CAC Grading do the same for the first coin graded or first 100 coins graded? What is the approach if there is one?

    4) If a NGC/PCGS + graded coin is submitted to CAC Grading for crossover, does your grading team cross it into the new CAC holder only if they agree with the numerical AND plus designation? What if the CAC grading team agrees with the numerical grade ONLY and NOT the plus designation, will the coin not cross and it is returned to the submitter in the original PCGS/NGC holder?

    5)Currently, CAC is a very active participant in the buying and selling of CAC approved PCGS/NGC coins. Will CAC continue to be a major buyer? If so, will CAC only buy and sell coins graded by CAC Grading and/or include PCGS/ NGC CAC stickered coins?

    6)If CAC Grading will offer grading, registry sets, images and other services, why continue to sticker coins? Shouldn't the goal to get all coins encapsulated into the new CAC Grading Holders?

    7) Will you sell CAC hats on your website? Will they be stickered?

    8) Let me get this straight, you are in NJ 75% of the time sticking coins, and the other 25% of the time you are in Virginia Beach at the new CAC Grading company grading coins. That seems like a recipe for quality control to get loose. How do intend to keep grading consistent and on point when you are only with the grading team 25% of the time?

    9) You have insinuated that some of the partners of CAC Grading are important people in numismatics. When will some of those names be public? After all, in principle, many support an idea based on the respect that have for others that support said idea.

    10) You mentioned in your letter that you will act as a tie breaker in some case. You mentioned you have 3 graders. I am not very good in math, but 3 graders will never be in a tie to even break. In reality, you could actually create a tie. So what's the deal? Rock, paper, scissors?

    11) Respectfully stated, you and the grading team at CAC are old. I want to support CAC for the long term - but its hard to do if you guys are in a senior housing community in a few years. What's the plan to bring in the young blood - the future of CAC Grading?

    455 more questions coming.....

  • Hello Seth. I’ll start with #8,10 and,11. I’ll be in NJ 75% of the time but anticipate being very active with the Virginia Beach operation as we expect CAC submissions to be much lower in the future . As you know we’ve been “ calibrating “ with our grading team and happy to report that we’ve had  discussions with about 2% of the coins we’ve viewed together.  I expect this to diminish to nearly zero in several years. We have 3 world class graders in Virginia Beach , old? I don’t think so , I’d called them experienced and seasoned veterans with at least 10 years of grading ahead of them. We’re not fielding a high school soccer team or a social media company here , this is a serious business with many collectors spending their hard earned dollars. We understand that in the next 10 years , we’ll need to bring in younger graders . This will take some time and we are encouraged as we’ve been discussing this with several potential super stars . In terms of tie- breakers : I have an incredible amount of respect for our top 3 graders and if only one out of three has an issue with a coin , the coin will be sent to NJ . I also have the luxury of showing it to my two CAC graders in Nj- Steve Blum and Bill Wetzler.  This may sound like a lot of work for just one coin but it’s important. An 1881-cc dollar in ms66 could be someone’s most valuable and important coin and we will treat it as such . JA
  • JACAC said:

    Thanks Bushmaster. We’ve spent 7 months developing a holder and are ordering new equipment. JA 

    this is good to know .. i hope you ended up with a holder that has a few critical strengths and safety properties

    thank you so much!
  • Will CACG coins be eligible for a CAC sticker? Or will there be no need for a sticker since they will be graded correctly?
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