Q&A with CAC Grading Operations Manager - Page 7 — Welcome to the CAC Educational Forum

Q&A with CAC Grading Operations Manager

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  • CAC has addressed that question in one of the threads on this forum. While they WILL guarantee the GRADE for coins with CAC stickers, they will NOT guarantee the suffix regarding color. So in your example, they will NOT cross a RD copper coin to RD, but will either return it, or cross it at what they feel is the correct current grade, depending on the specific instructions on the crossover form.
  • CAC has addressed that question in one of the threads on this forum. While they WILL guarantee the GRADE for coins with CAC stickers, they will NOT guarantee the suffix regarding color. So in your example, they will NOT cross a RD copper coin to RD, but will either return it, or cross it at what they feel is the correct current grade, depending on the specific instructions on the crossover form.

    Makes sense, thanks. No doubt they will not guarantee coins that have been abused, stored improperly or whatever, when they can't cross "as is" in good conscience. The message is "when in doubt, submit with a minimum even if stickered". No significant downside to doing such habitually IMO.
  • LarryC said:

    The last thing i would ever do is pay a premium because a seller told me that a CACG coin was in a PCGS holder with a CAC sticker in the past! That’s like telling someone they should pay more for a classic car because it was painted red in the past…yikes!

    That is not an appropriate analogy. It would be more akin to a pedigree, such as "owned by X" or "sold in the X auction". I think most collectors would agree that those things can (but don't always) add value.
  • edited November 2022
    oldabe said:

    I may have missed the answer to this, but consider: CAC has been doing this for 15 years. We've all seen RD copper morph into RB over time. Suppose a stickered 65RD is submitted, but due to improper care or whatever it is now RB at best. Does the crossover "guarantee" still apply, or would CACG grade it RB or return it with apologies?

    @oldabe, the short answer is there is no "guarantee" for copper. Likewise, CAC is not liable for coins stored improperly - even if previously stickered. With that said, CAC will be providing disclaimers and disclosures specifically pertaining to copper on the website.
  • noahlh said:
    I've read all the comments here and I think I can summarize pretty well: If you care about knowing that both PCGS + CAC think a coin is solid for the grade, then keep the coin in a PCGS holder w/ a CAC sticker. Problem solved. For the same reason that PCGS does not honor a "CAC legacy" or "NGC legacy" when they holder a coin or NGC does not honor a "PCGS legacy" when they holder a coin, CACG should not have such a concept. PCGS & NGC are competitors - their opinion of a coin that now lives in a CACG holder is irrelevant once it leaves their holder. None of us are obligated to cross over coins to CACG. The only thing that matters when you're submitting to CACG is the grade that CACG assigns to the coin. What holder it was in or whether it was previously stickered is irrelevant.
    Thank you!
  • noahlh said:
    I've read all the comments here and I think I can summarize pretty well: If you care about knowing that both PCGS + CAC think a coin is solid for the grade, then keep the coin in a PCGS holder w/ a CAC sticker. Problem solved. For the same reason that PCGS does not honor a "CAC legacy" or "NGC legacy" when they holder a coin or NGC does not honor a "PCGS legacy" when they holder a coin, CACG should not have such a concept. PCGS & NGC are competitors - their opinion of a coin that now lives in a CACG holder is irrelevant once it leaves their holder. None of us are obligated to cross over coins to CACG. The only thing that matters when you're submitting to CACG is the grade that CACG assigns to the coin. What holder it was in or whether it was previously stickered is irrelevant.
    This is pretty much my conclusion at this point.  If I feel a coin in a TPG slab with CAC sticker is good for the coin, I will likely leave it there.  There may be some that I send to CACG grading for a cross, but I think those will be in the minority.  

    I will likely still use PCGS, though their turnaround times have been prohibitive lately, and likely still the CAC approval process.   And will
    start sending some Raws to CACG to get a feel for their processes and the value it returns.  

    Call me optimistic but conservative.  :)
  • So there's not really been much talk about the imaging other than that there will be imaging done. Myself personally I like pcgs truview. I have sent a couple coins in for grading just because I want the truview images of the coin. And every coin I submit i add gold shield for the imaging. I wouldn't do it any other way. I like the images of the coin itself. I do like NGC and the slab images as well. I would like to see CAC do both. Raw coin images and slab images. So basically 4 images come up with the cert. Obviously in this day and age of counterfeit coins going into counterfeit slabs... But in those images the camera is focusing on the slab and the coin. Not just the coin. 
  • JA said they are planning to offer high quality images. Phil Arnold takes some great images but most of the Trueviews I receive are washed out due to excessive light. This makes naturally toned coins look cleaned. Post processing helps but many times the lighting is uneven making it extremely difficult to get a balanced image. Unfortunately the photographers refuse to adjust the lighting. They’re taking approximately 1000 images a day, this is not conducive to producing quality images.
  • I would suggest less saturation and less emphasized reds in a photo. Also there should be a slab photo always available to show what the coin looked like at encapsulation. That will be a helpful aid in seeing change but also somewhat deterring counterfeits using the same slab and serial number. 

    It would have been a huge benefit if the coin images (even if small) could have been on the back of the slab label. It would have raised the bar on security a lot and increase the cost and inconvenience for counterfeit labels. 
  • Dear Ops, Will CACG be adding a fee premium to crossovers?
  • Coinstein said:

    Dear Ops, Will CACG be adding a fee premium to crossovers?

    Could you be more specific as to what you mean by "fee premium?" I want to make sure I understand exactly what you're asking.
  • edited December 2022
    @CAC_Ops , Jumping in, for coins that successfully cross, PCGS charges a fee of 1% of the TOTAL value of the coin in its new grade, over and above the crossing fee!
  • @CAC_Ops , Jumping in, for coins that successfully cross, PCGS charges a fee of 1% of the TOTAL value of the coin in its new grade, over and above the grading fee!

    Thanks! That's what I thought was meant but wanted to make sure. The short answer is...

    NO! :)
  • edited December 2022
    That’s fantastic, and a tremendous financial incentive to attract crossovers. Thanks again, with another CACG policy that is “Collector Friendly”.

    Steve
  • Thanks Steve for jumping in, I should have been clearer…and thanks CAC_Ops for the answer I was hoping to hear.
  • I know I asked if you would be grading ike proofs and that you said you would. Are you going to grade the GSA in the GSA holders? I want to keep mine in the original holders with a seal or similar like NGC currently does. I can't recall if it was asked or said yet. But will CAC have a seal like that? Will that seal be ready by the launch? Also, will cac recognize ike varieties? I have several 71S GSA ikes that are peg leg. These are the ones I really wanted graded and attributed. 
  • This question is for JA. What percentage of green sticker coins over the years that were graded by CAC would you guess are A coins?
  • edited December 2022
    Hi Stevie.  My guess : 25%.  JA 
  • JACAC said:
    Hi Stevie.  My guess : 25%.  JA 
    Thanks for your reply. Interesting to know your thoughts 
  • Will CACG be grading RB and BN cameo coins?

    Another poster on the PCGS forums posted an exceptional RB 1936 cent that in my opinion garners a CAM designation. If it was sent to PCGS, it would never be able to grade CAM, no matter how frosty the coin was because PCGS only grades RD cameos. NGC could call it a cameo, as they grade BN and RB cameos so long as the piece deserves the designation.

    Obviously, cameos don't exist solely on RD coins, so I hope CACG will not adopt PCGS's stance on this.
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