For many collectibles the packaging can greatly affect the value if its not in tact. Star Wars toys or Hot Wheels are a great example. When it comes to coins, original packaging has seemed irrelevant except for some few exceptions. We now have vintage holders adding to the allure of the collectible itself and many in the hobby just can't grasp it. I personally think it’s great as it certainly adds to the collecting experience. We had an NGC 1.0 Black sell tonight at Great Collections for $12,500! The 1885-O MS-63 inside that holder is a $100 coin! Please think twice on what you crack out for the new CACG as this early holder craze may be here to stay.
i will admit that I also sold a few months ago….one of my many black NGC 1.0 holders for $12,500 net. It had a gold sticker on a MS-64 1903-O silver dollar.
I have been fortunate enough to accumulate the largest holdings of black NGC 1.0 slabs I am aware of. I took me 34 years to find them. My first one was purchased back in 1988. I learned my lesson that the unopened packaging enclosing the lionel train can be more important then the rarest of the lionel train itself.
I just read an article in The Numismatist about old holders. It claims these old holders are worth a ton of money. I mean like $2000 with a $5 coin in it, for a white label NGC…huh? Even generic P rattlers are worth $100+ just for the plastic? I actually had several (maybe 6?) consecutively numbered doily P coins that I sent in back then. Never thought about them ever being worth anything extra. I just remember thinking I didn’t like the label. 🤷♂️
But there is someone out there who does and who will pay up for it. Wait until the amount of new stickered coins coming to market drops. The premiums will go up on these. I won't cross anything. I've already seen some series in rattlers being 5x as much as that coin is worth. Imagine rattler with cac in 10 years, 20 years?
My auction staff took some early holders for consignment before I had my say. Coin collecting is about coins, not holders. As with Moderns what kind of liquidity do these things have out side of auction? Crypto was popular too. Its okay to pay a small premium, but $12,000.00 for an MS63 $1 because of the old holder (in a recent internet auction)? Give me a PCGS MS65 Bust Half at that any day.
I would just leave a high end coin where it is. Its is worthy of the next grade up, you will get it. But $12G for common stuff worth $150.00-ridiculous-IN MY OPINION!
My auction staff took some early holders for consignment before I had my say. Coin collecting is about coins, not holders. As with Moderns what kind of liquidity do these things have out side of auction? Crypto was popular too. Its okay to pay a small premium, but $12,000.00 for an MS63 $1 because of the old holder (in a recent internet auction)? Give me a PCGS MS65 Bust Half at that any day.
I would just leave a high end coin where it is. Its is worthy of the next grade up, you will get it. But $12G for common stuff worth $150.00-ridiculous-IN MY OPINION!
My auction staff took some early holders for consignment before I had my say. Coin collecting is about coins, not holders. As with Moderns what kind of liquidity do these things have out side of auction? Crypto was popular too. Its okay to pay a small premium, but $12,000.00 for an MS63 $1 because of the old holder (in a recent internet auction)? Give me a PCGS MS65 Bust Half at that any day.
I would just leave a high end coin where it is. Its is worthy of the next grade up, you will get it. But $12G for common stuff worth $150.00-ridiculous-IN MY OPINION!
Coin collecting is indeed about coins But fancy holders and CAC beans themselves are also highly sought-after collectibles. Nobody has said that anyone was paying these crazy prices for the coins inside.
Most modern coins are indeed a poor investment but I personally know many coin dealers who are getting rich from selling them. They brag about their stratospheric markups.
I just read an article in The Numismatist about old holders. It claims these old holders are worth a ton of money. I mean like $2000 with a $5 coin in it, for a white label NGC…huh? Even generic P rattlers are worth $100+ just for the plastic? I actually had several (maybe 6?) consecutively numbered doily P coins that I sent in back then. Never thought about them ever being worth anything extra. I just remember thinking I didn’t like the label. 🤷♂️
But there is someone out there who does and who will pay up for it. Wait until the amount of new stickered coins coming to market drops. The premiums will go up on these. I won't cross anything. I've already seen some series in rattlers being 5x as much as that coin is worth. Imagine rattler with cac in 10 years, 20 years?
My auction staff took some early holders for consignment before I had my say. Coin collecting is about coins, not holders. As with Moderns what kind of liquidity do these things have out side of auction? Crypto was popular too. Its okay to pay a small premium, but $12,000.00 for an MS63 $1 because of the old holder (in a recent internet auction)? Give me a PCGS MS65 Bust Half at that any day.
I would just leave a high end coin where it is. Its is worthy of the next grade up, you will get it. But $12G for common stuff worth $150.00-ridiculous-IN MY OPINION!
My auction staff took some early holders for consignment before I had my say. Coin collecting is about coins, not holders. As with Moderns what kind of liquidity do these things have out side of auction? Crypto was popular too. Its okay to pay a small premium, but $12,000.00 for an MS63 $1 because of the old holder (in a recent internet auction)? Give me a PCGS MS65 Bust Half at that any day.
I would just leave a high end coin where it is. Its is worthy of the next grade up, you will get it. But $12G for common stuff worth $150.00-ridiculous-IN MY OPINION!
Coin collecting is indeed about coins But fancy holders and CAC beans themselves are also highly sought-after collectibles. Nobody has said that anyone was paying these crazy prices for the coins inside.
Most modern coins are indeed a poor investment but I personally know many coin dealers who are getting rich from selling them. They brag about their stratospheric markups.
Fancy holders and CAC beans are two COMPLETELY different issues, and as such, their points should not be mentioned in the same sentence.
According to what I read above, fancy holders (Old Black NGC holders, etc.) have absolutely nothing to do with the coins - it’s the Black holders in and of themselves that provide value to a minority of passionate collectors.
On the other hand, the demand for coins with CAC stickers is based on the fact that as a generalization, the QUALITY of coins with CAC stickers is superior to the quality of other coins in that same grade that failed to sticker.
The first, in the opinion of many, has no logic. The second, also in the opinion of many, does have logic.
The beauty of this forum is we all get to have our opinions. In the last few years I have bought at least five different fancy holders: NGC 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, PCGS Regency, Redfield Green. My only requirement is that the coins and the slabs must be PQ! Each purchase had me questioning my own logic. Well here we are today and my investment in these slabs has them valued 2 - 5 X what I paid! I enjoy owning the PQ coins and the history of each slab. Did I mention that they all have CAC (except Redfield as these aren’t accepted by CAC).
Show me where there are bid/asks for these things. There are none. Again, its one thing to pay a decent premium, but the premiums I see being paid are ridiculous.
My staff knows not to take this stuff again now. I will admit, the eye balls to the stuff have been amazing. But if you pay $8G for a coin only worth $250.00, there is and will always be substantial downside no matter how any people are interested if there is no firm secondary market. What, did SBF(FTX) and his crew come into the holder trading biz?
I am not against owning older holders. I am horrified by the premiums being paid. If you need to sell your prize immediately, its auction or bust. There are no clear market makers and you'll lose heavy-IN MY OPINION. Just don't go crazy on this stuff.
Show me where there are bid/asks for these things. There are none. Again, its one thing to pay a decent premium, but the premiums I see being paid are ridiculous.
My staff knows not to take this stuff again now. I will admit, the eye balls to the stuff have been amazing. But if you pay $8G for a coin only worth $250.00, there is and will always be substantial downside no matter how any people are interested if there is no firm secondary market. What, did SBF(FTX) and his crew come into the holder trading biz?
I am not against owning older holders. I am horrified by the premiums being paid. If you need to sell your prize immediately, its auction or bust. There are no clear market makers and you'll lose heavy-IN MY OPINION. Just don't go crazy on this stuff.
What do you think about the Gold CAC market? Are there bid/asks for them?
I agree with @Legend on this. The prices paid for rare plastic is out of control. Many times the coins are not special at all. I think it’s smart advice to listen to and not pay 8k for a $250 coin just because of the slab it’s in.
@acspatriot13 I can’t speak for Legend but a gold cac stickered coin is much different imho. Most of the time the gold stickered coins are superior coins and usually have some extra umpf which make it worthy of a premium. That being said It’s not smart to buy them regardless of the coin. One should not forget they are buying the coin.
All that being said. This is a free country and if people want to spend crazy money on rare plastic, more power to them. But I don’t consider them coin collectors. I think of them as slab collectors. To different things and I don’t think it’s a smart move to join the slab collector market. It’s very small and most of them are hoarded.
What do you think about the Gold CAC market? Are there bid/asks for them?YES, THERE ARE BID/ASKS-THE NEXT GRADES UP!!!!! a GOLD STICKER MEANS IT EXCEEDS THE CURRENT GRADE.
Most of the “crazy” buyers of these old Slabs are usually just buying just one or two and are not going crazy trying to buy them up. They have different reasons for even raking an interest in them.
I started buying them back in 1988 and rarely paid much of a premium on them especially on the $20 Mint state Saints. i love the way the $20 Saints looked in the black holder.
What do you think about the Gold CAC market? Are there bid/asks for them?YES, THERE ARE BID/ASKS-THE NEXT GRADES UP!!!!! a GOLD STICKER MEANS IT EXCEEDS THE CURRENT GRADE.
Turn your caps lock off. Makes it look like you’re agitated and yelling for no reason.
I know what a gold sticker means. A bid/ask in the next grade up can’t be the same thing as a bid/ask for a gold stickered coin. Are there specific bid/asks for gold stickered coins? I’m assuming no (and no one in their right mind would sell them for bid in the next grade up in this market anyway).
No bid/asks for rare slabs seems like an opportunity to me. For example, early this year I’d buy Doily slabs for $300 premiums over the bid value of the coin it held any time I could. Today, good luck finding one for less than a $500 premium. These extra factors (rare slabs, gold stickers) make coins that are otherwise cheap and common much more interesting to collect.
I couldn’t agree more…not only much more interesting to collect but fun too. I see two perspectives here, coins conservatively graded from the early days of certification along with CAC confirmation in many cases versus the gradeflation crowd who want to extract as much value out of these coins as possible! You ever notice how many nice looking high grade pricy coins you see in these auctions without CAC? We know most have been to CAC and failed. I’ll take the early holder high end for the grade coin over the maxed out CAC-less registry flash coins in current holders any day!
Comments
Same with the black NGC 1.0 slab.
I would just leave a high end coin where it is. Its is worthy of the next grade up, you will get it. But $12G for common stuff worth $150.00-ridiculous-IN MY OPINION!
Most modern coins are indeed a poor investment but I personally know many coin dealers who are getting rich from selling them. They brag about their stratospheric markups.
+2
According to what I read above, fancy holders (Old Black NGC holders, etc.) have absolutely nothing to do with the coins - it’s the Black holders in and of themselves that provide value to a minority of passionate collectors.
On the other hand, the demand for coins with CAC stickers is based on the fact that as a generalization, the QUALITY of coins with CAC stickers is superior to the quality of other coins in that same grade that failed to sticker.
The first, in the opinion of many, has no logic. The second, also in the opinion of many, does have logic.
My staff knows not to take this stuff again now. I will admit, the eye balls to the stuff have been amazing. But if you pay $8G for a coin only worth $250.00, there is and will always be substantial downside no matter how any people are interested if there is no firm secondary market. What, did SBF(FTX) and his crew come into the holder trading biz?
I am not against owning older holders. I am horrified by the premiums being paid. If you need to sell your prize immediately, its auction or bust. There are no clear market makers and you'll lose heavy-IN MY OPINION. Just don't go crazy on this stuff.
@acspatriot13 I can’t speak for Legend but a gold cac stickered coin is much different imho. Most of the time the gold stickered coins are superior coins and usually have some extra umpf which make it worthy of a premium. That being said It’s not smart to buy them regardless of the coin. One should not forget they are buying the coin.
I started buying them back in 1988 and rarely paid much of a premium on them especially on the $20 Mint state Saints. i love the way the $20 Saints looked in the black holder.
I know what a gold sticker means. A bid/ask in the next grade up can’t be the same thing as a bid/ask for a gold stickered coin. Are there specific bid/asks for gold stickered coins? I’m assuming no (and no one in their right mind would sell them for bid in the next grade up in this market anyway).
No bid/asks for rare slabs seems like an opportunity to me. For example, early this year I’d buy Doily slabs for $300 premiums over the bid value of the coin it held any time I could. Today, good luck finding one for less than a $500 premium. These extra factors (rare slabs, gold stickers) make coins that are otherwise cheap and common much more interesting to collect.