For a vendor who has no CAC coins or maybe one or two then I will take a closer look.
WRONG!!! That makes them a bottom fisher. Why would they not want to make more money? Plus, I would bet by the time you see their coins listed, a sharp dealer would have picked them off.
I agree unless they are a part timer or vest pocket no matter they will have been picked a few times by the time collectors hit the Floor
For a vendor who has no CAC coins or maybe one or two then I will take a closer look.
WRONG!!! That makes them a bottom fisher. Why would they not want to make more money? Plus, I would bet by the time you see their coins listed, a sharp dealer would have picked them off.
I didn’t say I would buy. I would just look more closely. With the vendors who have lots of CAC I would just look at the CAC coins.
I still see some old school dealer's around, who simply will not send coins to CAC. Even the Rattlers and Fatty's. I buy them every single time. If a dealer, eBay seller, etc. has zero CAC coins for sale, it is a safe bet they are not submitting them. If they have some CAC coins for sale, you can bet your bottom dollar that the non-CAC coins did not pass.
If it's in a dealer's inventory, just ask them if they submitted it or know if it's been submitted. The OP asked about high value coins. For such coins in an auction at Heritage, Stacks, Legend or GC, the answer is yes, I assume it.
I’ll answer the question directly: For a coin of high value as stated in the OP, if it has no sticker and is in an auction or for sale by a regular dealer, right or wrong, I assume it failed.
For certain vendors who sell a lot of CAC coins I will assume anything without the bean was either a reject or was determined by the vendor to not be worth submitting for whatever reason. For a vendor who has no CAC coins or maybe one or two then I will take a closer look.
My thoughts exactly
That is part of my approach as well. I am not talking about a seller with lots of high end coins and little else. I have a list of sellers and what I have surmised their CAC process appears to be and I buy accordingly.
To me it really depends on the source- you’ve got to know the competition. For instance my local coin dealer squirreled away some OGHs over 30 years ago and pulls out a dozen or so every year to sell- some of them fairly high five figure coins- I know those haven’t been to CAC.
On the other hand, take a dealer like Witter Coin- they feature a “CAC Reveal” on Instagram with Seth Chandler every week where he goes through his shipments and reviews all of the submissions that passed or failed and provides some explanation for the fails- so you have to figure every coin in his inventory has been to CAC or wasn’t worth sending.
Many folks here have nailed it pretty well. It all depends on the source. I've purchased plenty of coins from "big-time" dealers at shows, from their websites, and other places that ended up stickering. Mostly stuff in the $1k-$3K range. Sometimes they just acquired a coin and haven't sent it in yet. Sometimes they don't believe in it as much as I do. Sometimes you just get lucky. You never know. I've purchased more than one coin without a bean that ended up being in the CAC database. I guess the former owner peeled the sticker off for some reason.
In general though, if it's a big coin and it's being offered by someone with some market savvy, it's probably been tried.
I think knowing your audience is important in this situation. I know one of the LCS I frequent doesn't have the time or patience to send coins to CAC. He is more of a wholesaler, so he likes to buy and flip for a quick profit and keep the money flowing. I occasionally offer to send "better" material in for him since he doesn't have a membership to CAC. For instance, he has an $5 AU-58 piece of Charlotte gold ($15k coin) sitting in his case that I know has never been to CAC. Knowing this lets me cherry-pick his material...
NO - making assumption like that (thread title) is admission person possibly does not know how to grade / view coins, pushing own agenda, has no concept of size of market or pop CAC / non CAC, stuck on just US Classic Coins. They don’t see the big picture imv. It’s like somebody with blinders ignoring the size of the known universe.
Some coins will never be sent in for most part (common / low value - Generic common date MS63 Peace Dollar). Don’t really worry about it (CAC a different pricing tier). My concern there is will they pay the money. Certainly at the $1000 and above level demand for CAC can dictate that idea. However, the expense (large inventory) and risk (shipping loss) would be an inhibiting factor in submission for many in the business. As the CPG CAC MV premium rises for an issue so does the incentive and likelihood it may have been sent in for CAC. A friend who sells pools says it’s like a standard pool vs one with a spa, etc.
I did have a couple of buys off the bourse (got them from walk up seller) cracked / needing dip 4 flip then sent into auc house with them going to PCGS / CAC before going into auction; they did really well. It’s just how you work your angle. One CAC coin offered me at a recent show absolutely did not like (darkish toning) plus the guys price in dreamland. Wondered if sent in that way or turned in the holder sometime after being stickered. Passed.
If buying CAC coins for me it’s a function if can buy right (decent profit margin) and sales potential: move it fast / get the money. Additionally US Classic Coins not my only numismatic area of investment.
Numismatic investment risks increase as the cost of the item climbs above one’s individual item risk level. Coins values can drop (Mkt crash) and coins can go bad in the holder so for me want move them quickly.
I dont know for sure, but I'm about to find out. I just got my CAC membership package today and I have 5 coins to send. They are all under $5k coins. I have studied these coins in depth and compared them to others exactly the same that have CAC, and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. One of the coins was so great looking that I sent it to PCGS for reconsideration and it got upgraded a full point. I am excited to find out though. I don't think that all coins under 5 figures have been submitted. Sure, CAC has been around a while, but still, not quite everyone has gotten on board yet. Although, I do see more and more coming around every day. I'll let everyone know how it goes when my submission gets back. Wish me luck on my very first CAC submission. The coins are as follows.
1888 Gold $1 PCGS MS65 1907 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS65 1909 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS63 1912 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS64 (this is the one that upgraded) 1937 Antietam Silver Comemm. PCGS MS65 (this one is the one I dream will get a gold bean. LOL. Seriously though, it's pristine for a MS65)
The short answer is “no.” If I like the coin for my collection, and the is right, I’ll buy it sticker or no sticker.
Sometimes no sticker is good because it might lower the price. The dealer’s description for 1795 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Dollar I purchased a few weeks ago started out with the words, “the market for non CAC Bust Dollars …” It is graded VF-35, has original surfaces, and I agreed with the grade. Great! No sticker saved me some money.
In your situation, I believe you made the right decision, since there are only four coins with CAC’s graded VF35, and those may never show up for you to have a purchase opportunity. And yes, you absolutely saved money compared to buying a coin with eye appeal just as nice as yours, but with a sticker.
But most of the time, for many collectors, the situation is different, due to somewhat higher pops in the grade wanted, with and without stickers. Almost always money can be saved by buying the coin without the sticker, but one might ask/wonder, “Why does this coin I’m looking to buy (and save money) not have a sticker? 1. Is it a “C” coin, and therefore not “solid” for the grade? If so, am I ok with that? 2. Has the surface been “messed” with? If so, am I ok with that? 3. Will I convince myself that a coin at this price point, with a price differential of not having a CAC (after all, the point being made is money is being saved) has never been submitted to CAC? While that’s always possible, for the reasons stated in other threads, it’s not likely.
Certainly there are people looking for coins off the bourse to pickoff send in to cac but most sellers in the know have their PQ non cac material priced accordingly. However to keep it fair I try be nice and probly fudge my price down a little so they might make 5pct if it CACs.
Comments
In general though, if it's a big coin and it's being offered by someone with some market savvy, it's probably been tried.
I did have a couple of buys off the bourse (got them from walk up seller) cracked / needing dip 4 flip then sent into auc house with them going to PCGS / CAC before going into auction; they did really well. It’s just how you work your angle. One CAC coin offered me at a recent show absolutely did not like (darkish toning) plus the guys price in dreamland. Wondered if sent in that way or turned in the holder sometime after being stickered. Passed.
1888 Gold $1 PCGS MS65
1907 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS65
1909 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS63
1912 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS64 (this is the one that upgraded)
1937 Antietam Silver Comemm. PCGS MS65 (this one is the one I dream will get a gold bean. LOL. Seriously though, it's pristine for a MS65)
if that is true you might get a nice coin at a bargain price that maybe later would be cac’d…..
...Hobby Hurdle...
It RARELY happens if at all. Dealers go through great lengths trying to get coins past CAC and it does not work.
Sometimes no sticker is good because it might lower the price. The dealer’s description for 1795 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Dollar I purchased a few weeks ago started out with the words, “the market for non CAC Bust Dollars …” It is graded VF-35, has original surfaces, and I agreed with the grade. Great! No sticker saved me some money.
But most of the time, for many collectors, the situation is different, due to somewhat higher pops in the grade wanted, with and without stickers. Almost always money can be saved by buying the coin without the sticker, but one might ask/wonder, “Why does this coin I’m looking to buy (and save money) not have a sticker?
1. Is it a “C” coin, and therefore not “solid” for the grade? If so, am I ok with that?
2. Has the surface been “messed” with? If so, am I ok with that?
3. Will I convince myself that a coin at this price point, with a price differential of not having a CAC (after all, the point being made is money is being saved) has never been submitted to CAC? While that’s always possible, for the reasons stated in other threads, it’s not likely.