I dont know for sure, but I'm about to find out. I just got my CAC membership package today and I have 5 coins to send. They are all under $5k coins. I have studied these coins in depth and compared them to others exactly the same that have CAC, and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. One of the coins was so great looking that I sent it to PCGS for reconsideration and it got upgraded a full point. I am excited to find out though. I don't think that all coins under 5 figures have been submitted. Sure, CAC has been around a while, but still, not quite everyone has gotten on board yet. Although, I do see more and more coming around every day. I'll let everyone know how it goes when my submission gets back. Wish me luck on my very first CAC submission. The coins are as follows.
1888 Gold $1 PCGS MS65
1907 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS65
1909 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS63
1912 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS64 (this is the one that upgraded)
1937 Antietam Silver Comemm. PCGS MS65 (this one is the one I dream will get a gold bean. LOL. Seriously though, it's pristine for a MS65)
The results are in. 4 out of 5 of these coins received a CAC sticker. Only the 1888 Gold $1 MS65 did not CAC. Further evidence of my theory that not all coins under $5k have been to CAC. All of these coins were purchased at GC over the past 6 months. As I mentioned before the 1912 Gold Quarter Eagle got upgraded by PCGS from MS63 to MS64 and then received a CAC sticker to boot. I couldn't be happier.
Congratulations on those results. Regarding your theory about not all coins under $5000 having been to CAC - not all coins over $5000 have been there, either.😉
How do you know for sure that all these coins were never sent to CAC. He sent in very premium quality coins that were measured by other CAC coins as he stated. So perhaps these coins always merited a CAC sticker but failed first time around for various unknown reasons, including chance. Sample size too small to draw any conclusions. Send in 100 higher coins and see if a good proportion sticker and than you have more validity to his theory.
I dont know for sure, but I'm about to find out. I just got my CAC membership package today and I have 5 coins to send. They are all under $5k coins. I have studied these coins in depth and compared them to others exactly the same that have CAC, and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. One of the coins was so great looking that I sent it to PCGS for reconsideration and it got upgraded a full point. I am excited to find out though. I don't think that all coins under 5 figures have been submitted. Sure, CAC has been around a while, but still, not quite everyone has gotten on board yet. Although, I do see more and more coming around every day. I'll let everyone know how it goes when my submission gets back. Wish me luck on my very first CAC submission. The coins are as follows.
1888 Gold $1 PCGS MS65 1907 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS65 1909 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS63 1912 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS64 (this is the one that upgraded) 1937 Antietam Silver Comemm. PCGS MS65 (this one is the one I dream will get a gold bean. LOL. Seriously though, it's pristine for a MS65)
The results are in. 4 out of 5 of these coins received a CAC sticker. Only the 1888 Gold $1 MS65 did not CAC. Further evidence of my theory that not all coins under $5k have been to CAC. All of these coins were purchased at GC over the past 6 months. As I mentioned before the 1912 Gold Quarter Eagle got upgraded by PCGS from MS63 to MS64 and then received a CAC sticker to boot. I couldn't be happier.
Congratulations on those results. Regarding your theory about not all coins under $5000 having been to CAC - not all coins over $5000 have been there, either.😉
How do you know for sure that all these coins were never sent to CAC. He sent in very premium quality coins that were measured by other CAC coins as he stated. So perhaps these coins always merited a CAC sticker but failed first time around for various unknown reasons, including chance. Sample size too small to draw any conclusions. Send in 100 higher coins and see if a good proportion sticker and than you have more validity to his theory.
I didn’t need to see those results to know that many coins valued at below $5,000, as well as $5,000 or much higher, haven’t been to CAC.
I dont know for sure, but I'm about to find out. I just got my CAC membership package today and I have 5 coins to send. They are all under $5k coins. I have studied these coins in depth and compared them to others exactly the same that have CAC, and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. One of the coins was so great looking that I sent it to PCGS for reconsideration and it got upgraded a full point. I am excited to find out though. I don't think that all coins under 5 figures have been submitted. Sure, CAC has been around a while, but still, not quite everyone has gotten on board yet. Although, I do see more and more coming around every day. I'll let everyone know how it goes when my submission gets back. Wish me luck on my very first CAC submission. The coins are as follows.
1888 Gold $1 PCGS MS65
1907 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS65
1909 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS63
1912 Gold $2.5 PCGS MS64 (this is the one that upgraded)
1937 Antietam Silver Comemm. PCGS MS65 (this one is the one I dream will get a gold bean. LOL. Seriously though, it's pristine for a MS65)
The results are in. 4 out of 5 of these coins received a CAC sticker. Only the 1888 Gold $1 MS65 did not CAC. Further evidence of my theory that not all coins under $5k have been to CAC. All of these coins were purchased at GC over the past 6 months. As I mentioned before the 1912 Gold Quarter Eagle got upgraded by PCGS from MS63 to MS64 and then received a CAC sticker to boot. I couldn't be happier.
Congratulations on those results. Regarding your theory about not all coins under $5000 having been to CAC - not all coins over $5000 have been there, either.😉
How do you know for sure that all these coins were never sent to CAC. He sent in very premium quality coins that were measured by other CAC coins as he stated. So perhaps these coins always merited a CAC sticker but failed first time around for various unknown reasons, including chance. Sample size too small to draw any conclusions. Send in 100 higher coins and see if a good proportion sticker and than you have more validity to his theory.
I didn’t need to see those results to know that many coins valued at below $5,000, as well as $5,000 or much higher, haven’t been to CAC.
What facts do you have to back up this statement that you know many coins haven’t been submitted to CAC?
Because I’ve seen many people submit coins for grading then sell them directly or through auction, without first submitting them to CAC. And I sometimes did the same, when I operated my own business. The non-CAC submission world of valuable coins is much larger than many posters seem to think - just ike the ungraded coin world is.
Because I’ve seen many people submit coins for grading then sell them directly or through auction, without first submitting them to CAC. And I sometimes did the same, when I operated my own business. The non-CAC submission world of valuable coins is much larger than many posters seem to think - just ike the ungraded coin world is.
Would you say you personal observations are of enough of a sample size to draw such an important conclusion?
I buy mostly coins that already have CAC, especially above a certain price point, but once in a while when I see something that looks really good for the grade I take a chance on it. It worked out well for me this time, but next time maybe not. As to the topic question of this thread however, I do not think it is safe to assume that all non CAC coins are rejects.
While most knowledgeable collectors buy the coin and not the sticker, I’m among a minority that wants only coins with CAC’s in my collection.
So while I now acknowledge that chances are there are more coins that have not been to CAC than I had imagined (and that’s too bad for those owners or consignors), for ME, I still choose to not accept the financial risk of buying an attractive four figure coin with no CAC, hoping it will get a CAC when I submit it.
I acknowledge that those that have chosen to learn and/or have the experienced eye to recognize non-CAC coins that have a high chance of getting a CAC, can make good money with that talent.
Yes, I would. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have said what I did. And many other active collectors and dealers are well aware of it I didn’t know there were many uneducated collectors and investors leaving such big money on the table, as a $50,000 coin could easily be a $60,000 coin with CAC as an example
While most knowledgeable collectors buy the coin and not the sticker, I’m among a minority that wants only coins with CAC’s in my collection.
So while I now acknowledge that chances are there more coins that have not been to CAC than I had imagined (and that’s too bad for those owners or consignors), for ME, I still choose to not accept the financial risk of buying an attractive four figure coin with no CAC, hoping it will get a CAC when I submit it.
I acknowledge that those that have chosen to learn and/or have the experienced eye to recognize non-CAC coins that have a high chance of getting a CAC, can make good money with that talent.
Steve
Steve, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking the safer approach, as you and many other collectors do. In fact, my opinion is that if ultimately, a collector wants a coin in a particular holder (or only a holder that’s been stickered), far more times than not, he or she is better off buying it that way.
Yes, I would. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have said what I did. And many other active collectors and dealers are well aware of it I didn’t know there were many uneducated collectors and investors leaving such big money on the table, as a $50,000 coin could easily be a $60,000 coin with CAC as an example
Obviously, there are huge quantities of coins at price levels way below that. Many of them have close to a zero chance of stickering, others aren’t worth meaningfully more with a sticker and still others would probably sticker, but aren’t submitted.
There are also many coins in that price range that have no meaningful chance to sticker. And just because a collector or investor chooses not to submit them doesn’t necessarily mean that he or she is uneducated. In fact, it could be said that many people who do submit certain coins are the ones who are uneducated.
Thanks. I wasn’t implying my buying strategies might change. I’m very comfortable continuing on my same path.
I didn’t think you were implying that. I feel that collectors should do what they like and are comfortable with, though hopefully they do so on an informed basis. And you do that.
While most knowledgeable collectors buy the coin and not the sticker, I’m among a minority that wants only coins with CAC’s in my collection.
So while I now acknowledge that chances are there more coins that have not been to CAC than I had imagined (and that’s too bad for those owners or consignors), for ME, I still choose to not accept the financial risk of buying an attractive four figure coin with no CAC, hoping it will get a CAC when I submit it.
I acknowledge that those that have chosen to learn and/or have the experienced eye to recognize non-CAC coins that have a high chance of getting a CAC, can make good money with that talent.
While most knowledgeable collectors buy the coin and not the sticker, I’m among a minority that wants only coins with CAC’s in my collection.
So while I now acknowledge that chances are there more coins that have not been to CAC than I had imagined (and that’s too bad for those owners or consignors), for ME, I still choose to not accept the financial risk of buying an attractive four figure coin with no CAC, hoping it will get a CAC when I submit it.
I acknowledge that those that have chosen to learn and/or have the experienced eye to recognize non-CAC coins that have a high chance of getting a CAC, can make good money with that talent.
Steve
Steve, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with taking the safer approach, as you and many other collectors do. In fact, my opinion is that if ultimately, a collector wants a coin in a particular holder (or only a holder that’s been stickered), far more times than not, he or she is better off buying it that way.
I agree with Mark whole heartedly. Collect the way you enjoy, and Steve, I'm an all CAC guy too. I'll probably consign the 1 coin that didn't sticker and get %90 of what I put into it back after commissions and shipping etc... , but that's fun for me. I enjoy the hunt and the thrill of success I got when the 1912 $2.50 gold upgraded from MS63 to MS64 and then CAC'd on top of that. I know that's not going to be a typical result, but I'm prepared for that.
If the coin is in a GC, Heritage or Stacks auction I assume the coin has been to JA at least once. Same with coins at some of the big dealers out there. It is known that a CAC bean gets you more money. Few dealers want to leave $$ behind.
Totally agree, though it's difficult to place a value (like "$1,000") on the practice. But the implications are clear, more and more coins (most?) have been through the process which this raises the question of how CAC will generate future revs. I have my own ideas but suspect ja's are better, as usual.
The CAC stickering process is NOT the main revenue profit source of CAC. Buying and selling CAC coins is where they make their major profits.
i have not (yet) viewed this as a problem and i don't ever expect to see it based on my feelings about the personal integrity and honesty that @JACAC will never deviate from .. but stickering for profit seems like it is too tempting to game the market
notice i intentionally show deleted text here because i truly belive that it's not a problem now and i hope i'm right about it .. i also would like to apologize for even commenting about it, but others here may have similar reactions to how you @Winesteven likely did not imply a devious scheme .. i really don't think you meant to
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How do you know for sure that all these coins were never sent to CAC. He sent in very premium quality coins that were measured by other CAC coins as he stated. So perhaps these coins always merited a CAC sticker but failed first time around for various unknown reasons, including chance. Sample size too small to draw any conclusions. Send in 100 higher coins and see if a good proportion sticker and than you have more validity to his theory.
I didn’t need to see those results to know that many coins valued at below $5,000, as well as $5,000 or much higher, haven’t been to CAC.
So while I now acknowledge that chances are there are more coins that have not been to CAC than I had imagined (and that’s too bad for those owners or consignors), for ME, I still choose to not accept the financial risk of buying an attractive four figure coin with no CAC, hoping it will get a CAC when I submit it.
I acknowledge that those that have chosen to learn and/or have the experienced eye to recognize non-CAC coins that have a high chance of getting a CAC, can make good money with that talent.
Steve
There are also many coins in that price range that have no meaningful chance to sticker. And just because a collector or investor chooses not to submit them doesn’t necessarily mean that he or she is uneducated. In fact, it could be said that many people who do submit certain coins are the ones who are uneducated.
stickering for profit seems like it is too tempting to game the marketnotice i intentionally show deleted text here because i truly belive that it's not a problem now and i hope i'm right about it .. i also would like to apologize for even commenting about it, but others here may have similar reactions to how you @Winesteven likely did not imply a devious scheme .. i really don't think you meant to