1796 PCGS MS66+ 1c Pogue CAC — WHAT HAPPENED?

CACNUTCOLLECTOR

This coin hammered at GC on Sunday night for $483,750.  According to GC, same coin sold previously for $690,000 (2008) and $705,000 (2017).  Why did this happen?  I thought the coin market was robust.  Are we wrong?

Legend

NOT all areas are robust. If you read what I have been saying, Copper is dead. This was no surprise. Plus, I can say the serious copper folk do NOT troll online auctions. 

Zoins

It will be interesting to see if this is a new price level or an anomaly. If it gets resold soon at a stronger price, it could be a flash in the pan.

I just had two situations like this, where I was able to pick up things relatively inexpensively. In both cases, I was informed by others that I got a really good price and if they were bidding, the price would have been much higher.

MarkFeld

Legend said:

NOT all areas are robust. If you read what I have been saying, Copper is dead. This was no surprise. Plus, I can say the serious copper folk do NOT troll online auctions. 

Regarding the "Plus" part of your post: Serious copper (and other types of collector) "folk" don't ignore legitimate auctions of any type.

Legend

Please Mark, you know darn well the serious copper buyers hit Goldberg and Heritage. They do not troll an internet auction looking for a six figure coin. 

I do NOT in any way say the venue caused the lower price. The market for copper is not that strong period

EarlyFederalCoinage

The Pogue sale received a lot of fanfare and spirited bidding. Two overly exuberant bidders bid the coin well into the stratosphere and multiple times the auction house estimate to set a price that was not reproducible. It happens not infrequently with heavily promoted sale of pedigreed coins.

 For instance many of the Newman Collection coins were resold at losses right after the auction and in the several months that followed CAC sticker and and even if you adjust for the general market conditions. This is effect is often amplified for trophy coins.

TheCoinHound

Legend said:

NOT all areas are robust. If you read what I have been saying, Copper is dead. This was no surprise. Plus, I can say the serious copper folk do NOT troll online auctions. 

Aren't ALL auctions online these days?

Winesteven

I don’t want to speak for Laura, but I will. I believe she meant by “online auction” those auctions without live, in person floor bidding also available.

Legend

Maybe I am wrong, but I can't see a coin like that bringing a strong result out side of Goldberg or Heritage. I know I could not do it. Granted, there are collectors who do look everywhere, but I found the bigger more serious copper people don't go much outside of their know venues. 

FloridaFacelifter

I think the new big money recently flowing into the hobby is more interested in shiny gold and silver rarities rather than copper- look at what they’ve been buying. Early copper is an intimidating subject with lots of intricacies to grasp with all the different types and varieties- hard to buy a trophy coin if you don’t quite understand why it’s supposed to be a trophy. 

Pyrite

A picture of the darned thing would enhance this thread immensely !!!!!  

FloridaFacelifter

Winesteven

Pyrite

Thank you.   

Stevie

Regardless it’s amazing that a coin remains in that condition over 200 years ago!!! Even the quality of the coin is good for the 200 year old dies they had back then

lkeigwin

Not to mention the horrible planchets England delivered.
Lance.

Zoins

EarlyFederalCoinage said:

The Pogue sale received a lot of fanfare and spirited bidding. Two overly exuberant bidders bid the coin well into the stratosphere and multiple times the auction house estimate to set a price that was not reproducible. It happens not infrequently with heavily promoted sale of pedigreed coins.

 For instance many of the Newman Collection coins were resold at losses right after the auction and in the several months that followed CAC sticker and and even if you adjust for the general market conditions. This is effect is often amplified for trophy coins.

Perhaps, but in the 2017 Pogue sale, this only sold for 2% more than it did 9 years earlier in 2008.

WilliamJ

 I also was wondering about that coin and the sale price.
   There are some very nice large cents coming to auction in the Fun show through Heritage. It will be interesting to see how they do!   
   I wonder if it would have done better at the Fun Auction?

Legend

The copper in FUN will do just fine. Heritage is also a much bigger venue that has sold important copper collections before. 

Maybe this is where the early copper market will start to heat up. I can speak from experience-I was the biggest buyer in the Pogue Auction and other major copper sales. 

mellado

“Robust market “ aside. I have often seen both silver & copper coins in
slabs “ mellow down” or lose “pizzaz “
over the years. This is partic true with mint red copper so it may be presumed the blazing mint red - what there was of it & I examined the coin when first auctioned by Goldbergs - may well have lost some of its “ pizzaz” resulting in a lower auction price

Pyrite

I find copper incredibly interesting.  Mostly from a historical aspect.   I don't buy much of it just because of the ...active... nature of the metal.  Especially "RED"
Which is kinda dumb considering MY age.