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Brutally Frank Observations About CAC Slabbing From Grading Expert Warren Mills

Comments

  • Interesting. Thanks for sharing his perspective.
  • The truth of the matter is that everyone market grades these days with the possible exception of EAC.
  • I have mixed thoughts on his commentary .   I personally wish everything was technical grading and let the market figure out what a premium should be if it’s really a nice looking coin etc .   I don’t want a grader adding 1 , 2 or more grades because it has awesome luster.  So you pay ms 61 price on an AU 53 / 55.   That’s not right .  But that’s what they do.

     I disagree with the fear mongering it’ll crash high value sets down from a 7 digit to 6 digit value .

     I dislike he didn’t partner up with CACG .   I have my thoughts on that .  I think RCNH has changed a lot ( word from several long time clients ) ever since Chris climbed onboard . 

    My prediction is CACG’s credibility will not be called into question , the other 2 yes.    High end guys and guys that trust cac quality will gravitate and / or stay loyal to cacg .

    Cacg graded coins will demand higher premiums for a lower grade on the same coin.

     
  • I have mixed thoughts on his commentary .   I personally wish everything was technical grading and let the market figure out what a premium should be if it’s really a nice looking coin etc .   I don’t want a grader adding 1 , 2 or more grades because it has awesome luster.  So you pay ms 61 price on an AU 53 / 55.   That’s not right .  But that’s what they do.

     I disagree with the fear mongering it’ll crash high value sets down from a 7 digit to 6 digit value .

     I dislike he didn’t partner up with CACG .   I have my thoughts on that .  I think RCNH has changed a lot ( word from several long time clients ) ever since Chris climbed onboard . 


    My prediction is CACG’s credibility will not be called into question , the other 2 yes.    High end guys and guys that trust cac quality will gravitate and / or stay loyal to cacg .

    Cacg graded coins will demand higher premiums for a lower grade on the same coin.

     
    I do not perceive any brutally frank observation, at all.

    I am not sure of the purpose of posting the "brutally frank" soliloquy here.
    Shouldn't the Author do so? It is, after all, a bit self serving...and that is within capitalist bounds and nothing improper by doing so....but it is the other guy's playground, and this is not West Side Story.
  • john said:
    I have mixed thoughts on his commentary .   I personally wish everything was technical grading and let the market figure out what a premium should be if it’s really a nice looking coin etc .   I don’t want a grader adding 1 , 2 or more grades because it has awesome luster.  So you pay ms 61 price on an AU 53 / 55.   That’s not right .  But that’s what they do.

     I disagree with the fear mongering it’ll crash high value sets down from a 7 digit to 6 digit value .

     I dislike he didn’t partner up with CACG .   I have my thoughts on that .  I think RCNH has changed a lot ( word from several long time clients ) ever since Chris climbed onboard . 

    My prediction is CACG’s credibility will not be called into question , the other 2 yes.    High end guys and guys that trust cac quality will gravitate and / or stay loyal to cacg .

    Cacg graded coins will demand higher premiums for a lower grade on the same coin.

     
    I do not perceive any brutally frank observation, at all. I am not sure of the purpose of posting the "brutally frank" soliloquy here. Shouldn't the Author do so? It is, after all, a bit self serving...and that is within capitalist bounds and nothing improper by doing so....but it is the other guy's playground, and this is not West Side Story.


     I agree the pot stirrer shouldn’t have posted this here .   He often does and posts things that are negative towards CAC under the guise of being helpful or informative.   But everyone sees thru him 
  • Vincent Savage,

    Hilarious. I posted a leading expert's thoughtful evaluation of CAC's new slabbing service yet I was somehow being negative towards CAC.

    Ironically, Warren Mills' observations about CAC have generally been positive although every insider knows that Mills's grading is more conservative than CAC's, hence his modest criticisms.
  • It was and is negative, toward the Host, by the choice of you using emphasized labeling of the opinion as "brutally frank", not withstanding the grains of sales salt verbiage used in the opinion.

    Then again, I miss Mean Joe Green giving the child the sweaty jersey in the soda commercial.
  • John,

    The "brutally honest" modifier actually applied to Mill's entire 2/23 interview, not just the third paragraph in the OP.
  • As you wish.

    He who labels....Latin (and Hadith) proverb.
  • edited February 2023
    Politically correct bleeding hearts who unconditionally approve of the improvable status quo are why the rare coin business has faltered in some respects. Warren Mills is a highly respected major player in the inner circle of leading coin dealers, so his views should be publicized on this forum about a major third party verification (and future slabbing) service.

    But I do thoroughly disagree with Mills' ultra-strict standards for grading and originality. Auction prices determine values and thus de facto grades, so this science proves that CAC is slightly better at determining scientifically sound grades than Mills is, at least in my experience. But I am a lifelong fan of both.

  • CACfan said:
    Politically correct bleeding hearts who unconditionally approve of the improvable status quo are why the rare coin business has faltered in some respects. Warren Mills is a highly respected major player in the inner circle of leading coin dealers, so his views should be publicized on this forum about a major third party verification (and future slabbing) service. But I do thoroughly disagree with Mills' ultra-strict standards for grading and originality. Auction prices determine values and thus de facto grades, so this science proves that CAC is slightly better at determining scientifically sound grades than Mills is, at least in my experience. But I am a lifelong fan of both. Crude, uninformed personal attacks against me (a successful dealer who actually works in the pits) by you, a collector of inexpensive coins as per your own posts, is laughably counterintuitive.

    Good morning ☀️     I am very aware of Warren Mills and have a great deal of respect for him.   I merely stated my thoughts about his commentary.   If you disagree that’s fine .
     No uninformed personal attacks , I’ll refrain from pointing out what everyone says about you and watching your behavior and treatment of others which leads to time outs personally .

     Let’s keep it about coins shall we .   After we clear the air here now so we can move on.  

     You mention personal attacks but then go on the offensive with everyone and you do so anonymously.  Which is childish .   A man should proudly put his name behind his statements.      You say you’re a major big dealer working the trenches .  I actually believe you even though you’re anonymous.   I can tell you are extremely knowledgeable as well.    And when you try to belittle me or call to task my net worth I just shake my head .  Firstly because what I have isn’t your business and secondly it doesn’t matter.   I respect the guys that buy $100 coins as much as the million dollar coin buyers .   That’s why I get along with so many .   Attacking me for posting inexpensive coinage ????  Really ??

     Really as in you’re a dealer of lesser quality and value coins yet make fun of anyone whether they have $100 coins or $1,000 coins goes to show your character .   I display a little bit of everything .   I don’t come here to post my $15,000 to $80,000 coins but mix it up with some of my more affordable coins like $500 to $1,000 Morgan’s and Indians .   Not different than Cac on Instagram posts coins from across the spectrum and not just the monsters.   

     Warren Mills looked at some of my coins at Fun last month .   He absolutely loved my 1911 D Indians saying he hadn’t seen coins that original and nice in a long time.  Said good gold is getting harder to come by.  People are ruining them in various ways .  He told me my 27 Saint was the nicest obverse he’s ever seen but if it weren’t for a small line on the sun on the reverse it would be cac and a +.   So obviously I won’t be selling them knowing they are that highly thought of but the strictest grader alive perhaps .   My legend purchases have all been nice ones etc but I have nothing to prove to you .   So have a nice day .   Here are a few coins he looked at and loved .  You know , the inexpensive crap I buy all the time .  Those 4 are probably $100k retail .   Just a monthly purchase by this guy who you said is broke .  Lol 
  • "A man should proudly put his name behind his statements. You say you’re a major big dealer working the trenches. I actually believe you even though you’re anonymous. I can tell you are extremely knowledgeable as well."

    I understand the anonymity. After the belittling from CACfan, I, for one, and possibly others, would not knowingly make a purchase from this dealer.
This discussion has been closed.