CAC Morgans wear vs bagmarks.

aharris000

When grading a Morgan, specifically one that is MS64 or higher, what factors more into the grade. Strike and wear, or "chatter" and bagmarks on the cheek and fields

john

Could you clarify what you define as "wear" on a MS piece? There should not be any. I do not understand how a 64 or higher could achieve a technical grade of MS with "wear", and that is why I ask the question.

Chatter/bagmarks for an MS I understand. When you mention cheek and/or fields, that certainly happens on MS pieces, and that becomes a matter of opinion/quantity/eye appeal as to the MS grade. That is not the thrust of my question of what is meant by "wear".

Winesteven

I agree with @john that a MS64 and higher should not show any wear.

While I’m not a strong grader, I can share with you what I like when I buy these coins.

I’m working on DATE sets of Morgan and Peace Dollars. While I prefer strong strikes, and clean fields and cheeks for the grade, if I had only one of those two, I’d prefer the clean fields and cheeks over the strong strike.

Here’s my most recent addition to each of those two sets (the color of the Peace Dollar in the slab is like the coin in hand. The color of the “Not So True View” is way off from the coin in hand).








Both coins in hand are more spectacular than the photos.

Steve

aharris000

@john, on the hair above the ear, when it’s not very fine and accented, but flattened and melting together would that just be weak strike using moderate-late stage dies?  @Winesteven MS66 shows a little  of what I’m describing. I’m new to grading. I guess flattened hair would just be a weaker strike, not wear. 

aharris000

With the amount of chatter on the checks of this one, would this be a poor 64? 

MarkFeld

aharris000 said:

With the amount of chatter on the checks of this one, would this be a poor 64? 

That coin doesn’t look subpar for the grade to me.

Regarding your initial comment and question about “wear” - it sounds as if you were confusing weakness in strike and lack of detail on uncirculated coins with “wear”. By definition, an uncirculated coin shouldn’t exhibit any wear.

WilliamJ

My 84 cc shows a little flatness above the ear, but still I like it.

WilliamJ

I prefer to see marks from the rims of other coins compared to bag marks, usually, but I am no expert. I just find them intriguing. I wonder how the TPG graders view bag marks versus rim/ denticle marks??

aharris000

@MarkFeld thanks. I’m just now getting into Morgan’s, I started on peace dollars. But a good example I guess would be a 1921 high relief (peace) mid to late stage strikes. The details of the hair get very mushy, even with no wear. I don’t know why that didn’t occur to me early that it would be the same with Morgans. @WilliamJ would rim strikes that show the denticles still be considered bagmarks? 

MarkFeld

WilliamJ said:

My 84 cc shows a little flatness above the ear, but still I like it.

The detail above the ear looks about as good as it gets - I don’t see any flatness.

john

aharris000 said:

@john, on the hair above the ear, when it’s not very fine and accented, but flattened and melting together would that just be weak strike using moderate-late stage dies?  @Winesteven MS66 shows a little  of what I’m describing. I’m new to grading. I guess flattened hair would just be a weaker strike, not wear. 

Apologies for the tardiness in responding. SHE decided I had to act like a married man today.

I note Mark covered my rudeness with his reply, and I concur.

Sometimes, he is logical.

coastaljerseyguy

For MS grades it will be luster, strike & bagmarks taken into consideration of the grade. Someone posted the grading %'s recently and believe they change as the grade goes up, i.e. above MS65 if luster is poor it will not get the higher grade no matter how little bagmarks there are.
Regarding bagmarks, assuming the # of them, depth, length and luster effect are all taken into consideration for the grade. I prefer a cleaner cheek and would rather the chatter/hits in the fields.

aharris000

@coastaljerseyguy thanks for the information. Do you have a link to the % post? 

coastaljerseyguy

Couldn't find the post. There is a PCGS Coin Grading video on Youtube, didn't watch it all but from a pie chart looked like surface preservation was > 50%, then luster, then strike, and finally eye appeal (toning would fit in here).