HOW IMPORTANT ARE DESCRIPTIONS? — Welcome to the CAC Educational Forum

HOW IMPORTANT ARE DESCRIPTIONS?

Call me old fashioned, but I like descriptions. Today images can be pretty darn good. How important are descriptions to you?

Do you skip dealers and auctions that don't have descriptions?

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Comments

  • I really enjoy the full page descriptions on ultra-rarities but for 99.9% of coins I really despise the descriptions. It would be awesome if the description described the luster and any and all flaws that aren't readily apparent from the image. I guess describing flaws is not good "marketing" so probably will never happen. For the most part descriptions just seem like hype. I don't buy into the hype but I worry that the person I'm bidding against might.

    And what's even worse is how cataloguers treat coins that perhaps they don't regularly follow. It often seems with moderns that they say something like "with a mintage of xxx it's surprising that.." They are basically insulting the collectors of these coins and it's not "surprising" to any of us that regularly search for and submit these coins. Do you remember the estimates SB gave for the Pogue Washington Quarters? The estimates were insane, like 10x too low or even 30x in some cases. Any knowledgable Washington Quarter collector knew this. Was it gross incompetence or some hidden agenda? Either way that is really really bad.

  • I like descriptions that aren’t basically poetic descriptions of positive attributes in overly flowery terms. 
  • I think they're fun to read, but provide very little value outside of an auction with no images. This changes if the description provides details about a coin of historical significance.

    Some auction descriptions positively describe the coin to a point of being too positive, which means they need to be taken with a grain of salt.
  • edited May 2023
    How important are in-hand descriptions (and assessments) from qualified collectors or dealers?
  • Super important and Heritage especially does a great job ;). I've had some mixed results from other auction companies.
  • GC seems to do ok without descriptions...

    Heritage does do a great description. 
       I think that some descriptions could help the seller or the buyer one way or another. Example; if a coin has a small scratch or a rim ding, or if it is just a beautiful coin. The description could bring these to our attention.
  • TurtleCat said:

    I like descriptions that aren’t basically poetic descriptions of positive attributes in overly flowery terms. 

    That's funny. Those are the most useful for me - they help get my wife on board with my bidding plans.

    My serious answer is I do appreciate auction descriptions but don't avoid auctions without descriptions.
  • The best descriptions are those that make absolutely no mention of obvious rim dings, scratches, and hairlines.
  • I prefer honest descriptions of lots. If this approach is taken, descriptions matter! If this approach is NOT taken then the descriptions are useless. Only telling one side of the story to try to inflate bids for the consigners is a disservice to the bidders and coin industry.

    Saying WOW multiple times in a description helps no one. If GC did this, considering their return policy, their return rate would skyrocket. It’s bad for business. If there is no return policy, future bidders will believe nothing that is said and they will bid accordingly. Trying to compare coins with much higher end examples and saying they are close with the hopes of driving up bids is not a good honest strategy. I have seen this as well.

    As mentioned above, the descriptions written by Heritage on ultra rarities are very interesting. Reading the history is neat. On coins where they are low five figure or less, descriptions should be much simpler. Honesty should rule the day, not WOW WOW WOW Flowery this and that. Coins have flaws. I would prefer that someone honestly mention them but I haven’t seen much honesty in the industry lately.
  • I don't see any downside to descriptions as long as one takes them with a grain of salt, as with any product description, depending of course on experience with the seller and auction house. I particularly appreciate sellers who call out scratches and flaws on the holder. I've often had to contact the seller or auction house when scratches show up in the photos that may or may not be on the plastic. Also, slabs simply don't always tell all the tale, as when a variety is ignored by the TPG.
  • I like the descriptions Legendnumismatics uses on their ( yours Laura ) website.  

     Though it’s obvious sometimes a description is prepackaged and doesn’t fit the coin very well.  
  • edited May 2023
    When I see just listings of coins in an ad in a numismatic publication, it’s virtually useless.

    When photos are provided, that’s a great step up. If it’s a true high resolution photo, like those provided by DLRC, that’s even better. But auction house photos vary. While I buy many coins from GC, I’m not thrilled with their photos. So to address the question asked (finally, lol), there’s no doubt to me that written descriptions are a benefit to buyers, and for eye appealing coins, a benefit to the consignor too.

    Despite today’s technology, it’s very difficult to capture luster in a two dimensional photo (that’s why nu-tilt is much better).

    The more information a bidder has, the better. So there’s absolutely no doubt having written descriptions is better. Having detailed written descriptions is great, and having pop and recent sales data provided saves us all research time. That’s why I like the listings of Heritage, Legend, Stacks, etc.

    As noted above, I do buy a lot of coins from GC. But in my opinion, they would serve their clients better (both buyers, and consignors of eye appealing coins) with written descriptions and data.

    Since there’s no additional charge to me for taking up more space, I’ll throw in a final, but very important tidbit: despite photos and written descriptions, there’s no comparison to seeing a coin in hand. Since I rarely go to a show where lot viewing is available, I do the next best thing - I call the auction house. Heritage, Legend, GC, Stacks, and DLRC each provide at no charge the ability to have one of their numismatists look at the lot in hand, and provide an unbiased assessment. While I utilize that service, despite the photos looking good to me, the majority of the time I’m told to pass. That unbiased advice is invaluable, and over the years has saved me a ton of money by keeping me from buying coins that would turn out to be mistakes!

    Steve

    Steve
  • What happened to Laura?
  • edited May 2023
    She seems to get banned everywhere. It had to do with the First complete St. Gaudens $20 CAC set thread, I am pretty sure.
  • I find it quite ironic that she is on the list as a CACG supporter, and most likely a founder/investor, and yet is banned from speaking her mind on this forum. Many are not willing to hear what people really think. I guess you can always ban yourself and not say a word....
  • Coinstein said:

    I find it quite ironic that she is on the list as a CACG supporter, and most likely a founder/investor, and yet is banned from speaking her mind on this forum. Many are not willing to hear what people really think. I guess you can always ban yourself and not say a word....

    It’s one thing to “speak your mind”. It’s another to disparage others, and (in the process) make unfounded accusations.
  • edited May 2023
    Auction Description:
    . The better-date 1857 is scarcer than implied by its mintage of 94,000 pieces. Of the two business die varieties, most examples are OC-2. OC-1 is rare, with only about 45 survivors according to Dannreuther. It is readily distinguished from OC-2 by the date location, and the presence of bold diagonal die lines within the lower portion of the eagle's shield. The present Borderline Uncirculated representative is semiprooflike. The devices are frosty, and the borders display medium tan-brown toning. The reverse field shows scattered minor marks.

    Does this:


    Look like this????




    I'm OK with the coin for the price I paid, but I was really disappointed overall. It's not a bad coin and is hinting at being PL(why taking pictures is challenging), but the coin should be described as all but white! The reverse is the same as the obv. which shows how challenging coins like this are to picture. My Obv. and Rev. pics were taken in the exact same conditions within a minute of each other! The Obv. picture is the in hand look of the coin color wise.


  • With third party grading, good pics and, whenever possible, in person viewing, descriptions of a coin's appearance are rarely of much use. On the other hand, information about a coin's rarity, provenance and importance is far more useful, especially to someone who might otherwise have never considered bidding on the coin.
  • edited May 2023

    With third party grading, good pics and, whenever possible, in person viewing, descriptions of a coin's appearance are rarely of much use. On the other hand, information about a coin's rarity, provenance and importance is far more useful, especially to someone who might otherwise have never considered bidding on the coin.

    Your skills are a LOT better than mine (ignoring your third criteria of “whenever possible, in person viewing”). As I noted above, in MY experience, when the TPG grade and the photos of a coin look good for me to buy, I then ask a numismatist at the firm to examine the coin for me in hand, and more often than not, they have me pass. I believe seeing the coin in hand is crucial, and without that, having descriptions helps.

    It’s hard to disagree with the concept of the more information one has, the better.

    Steve
  • Personally, I love descriptions from dealers and auction houses on the coins that they list for sale. While pictures are great and show off the coin, the descriptions tell the coin's story. For me, the coin and the story tells enhances my interest in that coin. Also, many descriptions educate me in the coin i.e. this die variety comes weakly struck. You get the drift.
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